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Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

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Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#31

Post by carlosjobim »

ungreased0675 wrote: post #23
carlosjobim wrote: post #2

College degrees now have negative value for hiring. A company wanting to hire a reliable and competent worker will avoid college graduates.

Seems like you’re hurting some feelings. I’m a manager in a unique field where people come in with many educational levels. There is little correlation between educational credentials and job performance. A variety of previous jobs and having lived a few different places seems to correlate more with performance.

My comment is generalizing, as is the thread subject. It has been a downwards moving trend, and for young workers I will say that a college degree is now a negative factor. But that doesn't define the candidate.

Also: Any positive or negative effect of a college degree is either amplified or moderated by candidates self-selecting. A candidate who greatly values their college degree will seek out employers who do the same, and vice-versa.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#32

Post by delichon »

cvoss wrote: post #22
throwaway21321 wrote: post #4

1 in 8 incoming freshmen at UCSD (a leading institution in the states) cant solve "x + 5 = 3 + 7"... Why would I pay 30k a year or whatever it is to get a degree from somewhere like that?

What does your (dubious) example have to do with the quality of post-secondary education? If it has any relevance, it's for the quality of secondary education.

I wish it were dubious. I recently worked with 11th grade Algebra 2 students in New Mexico and found exactly that, and worse. Most couldn't begin to do algebra because they couldn't do simple addition and subtraction. Out of a class of 24 there were two who were arguably ready for it. But everyone is moved forward anyway. I understand your skepticism because I was shocked by it. The teachers said it all went down the drain during Covid and has not recovered.

It must severely limit what they can learn in college.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#33

Post by lunar-whitey »

okigan wrote: post #24
Cheer2171 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would you go to grade school and high school at institutions that produce graduates like that? Do you not know how U.S. K-12 public schools are funded by local property taxes, which means the quality of a child's education is a direct causal relationship of the wealth of their neighborhood? Why don't these children just grow up in richer neighborhoods?

Most are overpaying in taxes for what they are getting. Not to mention single/families without kids and seniors that still pay for school districts.

Fear not - the American school system was built on and holds fast to the supposition that the affluent should be able to avoid any unwanted exposure to the problems of those less fortunate than themselves.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#34

Post by deaddodo »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #15
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd go to UCSD if you could solve that equation, and want to learn to do more . (If you can't solve the equation, UCSD is a very expensive way to learn how.) I think the more relevant question is, why would you go to grade school and high school at institutions that produce graduates like that?

> why would you go to grade school and high school at institutions that produce graduates like that? Do you not know how U.S. K-12 public schools are funded by local property taxes, which means the quality of a child's education is a direct causal relationship of the wealth of their neighborhood? Why don't these children just grow up in richer neighborhoods?

Do you not know that the US is a Federal system and there are (at minimum) 50 different ways that schools are funded?

California's schools (for instance) aren't funded by local taxes, they're funded by the state and allocated funding based on a formula[1] of performance, need, population, etc. They can be augmented by local taxes, but in practice that's rare as the wealthy just avoid the system altogether; instead, opting for private institutions.

That's at least 12% of the population that is not funded in the manner you outline.

1 - https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/lc/

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#35

Post by TehShrike »

cvoss wrote: post #22
throwaway21321 wrote: post #4

1 in 8 incoming freshmen at UCSD (a leading institution in the states) cant solve "x + 5 = 3 + 7"... Why would I pay 30k a year or whatever it is to get a degree from somewhere like that?

What does your (dubious) example have to do with the quality of post-secondary education? If it has any relevance, it's for the quality of secondary education.

If the college would accept someone like that, they probably don't aim to take their students to a very high level.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#36

Post by zetanor »

cvoss wrote: post #22
throwaway21321 wrote: post #4

1 in 8 incoming freshmen at UCSD (a leading institution in the states) cant solve "x + 5 = 3 + 7"... Why would I pay 30k a year or whatever it is to get a degree from somewhere like that?

What does your (dubious) example have to do with the quality of post-secondary education? If it has any relevance, it's for the quality of secondary education.

If a university's administration overlooks a complete failure of the student selection process, it's easy to imagine that it may well overlook a complete failure of the professor selection process. The price of admission is also way too steep to wind up being the peer of mental 8th graders.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#37

Post by rahimnathwani »

paulorlando wrote: post #17

Better than asking "is college worth the cost," and getting into ROI calculations per major is asking "could we provide a similar (or better) educational and social experience at a fraction of the cost"? To that the answer is yes.

Many (most?) people go to college primarily for the piece of paper, not for the educational and social experience.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#38

Post by JKCalhoun »

jaccola wrote: post #7

I feel the same fallacies happen with money and degrees: - People with more money live better lives, so let's just print/hand out money and everyone will live a better life! - People with college degrees live better lives, so let's just push more people through college and everyone will live better lives! In both cases, of course, completely missing the underlying reasons money/college degrees provide(d) better lives…

Consider the contraposition.

• Poor people live shorter, unhealthier lives.

• Without a college degree, your employment options are diminished.

It's fine to trash "handing out money" or "pushing more people through college" but then what is left is: there's nothing we can do for poor people.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#39

Post by thomassmith65 »

yieldcrv wrote: post #16

Universities survived half a millenium being networking grounds for the upper class, and they will survive another millenium being networking grounds for the upper class The last century will be a mere footnote in a case study of folly, where 100% of the university's problems came from dealing with the underclass at all with a side helping of federal funny money. It will be comedic relief amongst starry eyed business…

Someone should turn that comment into a Twilight Zone episode...

We wake up tomorrow to a world where universities never existed.

No cultivation of Copernicus, Newton, Einstein...

So we're stuck mostly with 1000 year old technology.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#40

Post by lunar-whitey »

roenxi wrote: post #30
Cheer2171 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would you go to grade school and high school at institutions that produce graduates like that? Do you not know how U.S. K-12 public schools are funded by local property taxes, which means the quality of a child's education is a direct causal relationship of the wealth of their neighborhood? Why don't these children just grow up in richer neighborhoods?

The quality of an education isn't proportional to the amount of money spent; learning is remarkably cheap if a school wants to focus on outcomes. There's a bit of give in where the teacher sits on the bumpkin-genius scale (although even then, the range of salaries isn't that wide in the big picture). Although forcing the funding to go through a collective rather than letting people choose a school and pay on in indiv…

The school system is downstream broader social issues here. It can be shockingly expensive to deal with the various behavioral problems that disproportionately impact students from lower income communities. Students from stable homes with available and invested parents practically teach themselves.
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