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Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

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Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#81

Post by satvikpendem »

jaccola wrote: post #7

I feel the same fallacies happen with money and degrees: - People with more money live better lives, so let's just print/hand out money and everyone will live a better life! - People with college degrees live better lives, so let's just push more people through college and everyone will live better lives! In both cases, of course, completely missing the underlying reasons money/college degrees provide(d) better lives…

It's a prime example of the tragedy of the commons and there's honestly not much that can be done because of how competition on the supply side of the labor market works; for employers, a degree is no longer a differentiator among candidates.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#82

Post by fragmede »

Beijinger wrote: post #29
Beijinger wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My roommate can solve this. And he just turned 6. I gave him today some equations with two unknowns....

Why the Downvote? It is true.

what does it add to the conversation? The fact that incoming UCSD freshman cannot solve the problem is being brought up as a failure. That this six year old can solve it does nothing to address the issue of UCSD students being unable to solve a problem that we all expect them to. It it as if you are a stoichastic parrot, bringing up a fact that, yes, it happens to be true, because it is nearby on some vector space. Hence the downvotes.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#83

Post by drivingmenuts »

Aeolun wrote: post #44
JKCalhoun wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the contraposition. • Poor people live shorter, unhealthier lives. • Without a college degree, your employment options are diminished. It's fine to trash "handing out money" or "pushing more people through college" but then what is left is: there's nothing we can do for poor people.

Make money not a consideration in applying for college? Not by handing out whatever the universities are asking for of course, but by giving them a fixed $X per student.

That might have worked if we had established that right after WWII, but it would never get off the ground now. The current system is too entrenched.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#84

Post by derwiki »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #15
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd go to UCSD if you could solve that equation, and want to learn to do more . (If you can't solve the equation, UCSD is a very expensive way to learn how.) I think the more relevant question is, why would you go to grade school and high school at institutions that produce graduates like that?

> why would you go to grade school and high school at institutions that produce graduates like that? Do you not know how U.S. K-12 public schools are funded by local property taxes, which means the quality of a child's education is a direct causal relationship of the wealth of their neighborhood? Why don't these children just grow up in richer neighborhoods?

San Francisco USD’s lottery system has entered the chat

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#85

Post by crossbody »

satvikpendem wrote: post #79
crossbody wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Europe find a cheat code that gets free $$$ for education? Nothing is free - once you graduate you are hit with 50% tax that gets back all you "free" tuition costs many, many times over. Not saying education should not be subsidized via taxes (I think it's good overall), but it's not free at all - the price is just hidden and spread out over many years (similar to student loans but less visible).

Europe has a much lower expenditure per student compared to the US. https://www.aei.org/articles/the-crazy-amount-america-spends...

It does. In large part due to Baumol's cost disease - higher overall incomes in productive sector like tech drive up costs for sector with low productivity growth - so professors and admin staff in US make 2x salaries compared to Europe (cost of living adjusted). Also, have you seen EU student amenities and dorm sizes?

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#86

Post by tzs »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #42
throwaway21321 wrote: post #4

1 in 8 incoming freshmen at UCSD (a leading institution in the states) cant solve "x + 5 = 3 + 7"... Why would I pay 30k a year or whatever it is to get a degree from somewhere like that?

This is incorrect. It's 1 in ~50. Still bad! 8.5% of incoming freshmen place in Math 2. 25% of a class of Math 2 students could (EDIT: couldn't) answer 7+2=_+6 8.5% x 25% is about 2%, so 1 in 50.

Shouldn't that be 8.5% x 75% since you want the percent who could not answer it?

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#87

Post by rahimnathwani »

tzs wrote: post #86
rahimnathwani wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect. It's 1 in ~50. Still bad! 8.5% of incoming freshmen place in Math 2. 25% of a class of Math 2 students could (EDIT: couldn't) answer 7+2=_+6 8.5% x 25% is about 2%, so 1 in 50.

Shouldn't that be 8.5% x 75% since you want the percent who could not answer it?

Sorry, typo. I meant 25% couldn't answer it.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#88

Post by OGEnthusiast »

roamerz wrote: post #45
yoyohello13 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A happy side effect of that university degree was a more rounded education, which now many young adults will be missing out on. Absolutely! So many people bemoan taking general Ed classes, but knowing the basics about economics, literature, science, art, math, history is valuable if you want to think critically about the world.

>> but knowing the basics about economics, literature, science, art, math, history is valuable if you want to think critically about the world. Sure if that is relevant to what your goals in life are. I chose to get an education that was tightly coupled with the outcome I wanted.

Agreed. Going to college for the social experience and for generally learning about the world is effectively a luxury good now. For people who just want a path to stable employment, the ROI on college no longer makes sense at all.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#89

Post by pixl97 »

linguae wrote: post #68
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that printing money creates more money, but doesn't create any more stuff. College degrees (theoretically) create more educated people. If you just "hand out" degrees, that doesn't happen, but if you actually teach people, then it does.

I agree with you. The problem is that many young Americans for the past 30+ years has been told that a bachelor’s degree is the prerequisite for a job that pays well enough to afford a middle class lifestyle, which I’ll define as being able to afford owning a home in a safe neighborhood and being able to provide for a household without living paycheck-to-paycheck. What happens when a large number of college graduates…

All this states is expensive degrees aren't worth it, not paid for education.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#90

Post by wyldfire »

Americans attend college as a (1) rite of passage and to some extent (2) to have access to an influence network of peers and alumni. For elite universities, it's conceivable that #2 provides some real opportunity.

But in general #1 dominates the dollars spent on this experience and it's really too bad.

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