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Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

reuters.com

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Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#71

Post by fpoling »

impossiblefork wrote: post #59
iamgopal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small part in me understands that, they are banking on three things 1) oil will be cheap because of EV boom and hence EV dominance will be slow and could take couple of decades 2) electric Energy cost will rise significantly because so much charging and energy infrastructure required. 3) Battery will reach at par with gasoline and matured standardised comodity, that will be the perfect time to enter.

For a while maybe, but cheap EVs are being manufactured in Europe as well, and while this could reduce petrol prices, it's also going to reduce the need for petrol stations, and I think makes petrol basically dead even in a cheap-petrol scenario. A Renault Twingo is going to cost something like 20,000 euros. That's twice the price of a Dacia Sandero, but a Dacia Spring is 16,900. The difference is only 4000, which co…

A modern small and medium-sized car in Europe consumes like 4-6 liters/100 km. Even if one drives 15 thousands km/year (way above average) that gives like 900 liters of gasoline per year or like 1500-1700 euros with typical European prices.

And electricity is not free especially when using fast chargers. So at the end the savings is about 500-1000 euros per year. Which still is a good deal, but explains why people prefer to buy small gasoline cars. I think electric car premium must be below 2 thousand euros plus infrastructure must improve before gasoline car sales in Europe start to collapse.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#72

Post by jeltz »

nodesocket wrote: post #52
paxys wrote: post #7

Tesla was dead in the water when it became obvious that they couldn't make a sub-$30K car happen. They will still probably do well as a luxury brand, but China is going to fill in the demand for affordable EVs in the rest of the world outside USA/EU.

What, has it been a decade of HN’ers calling for imminent demise of Tesla. Meanwhile I’ve been laughing and buying all the way to the bank. Keep on doubting.

[flagged]

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#73

Post by haunter »

EliteGadget wrote: post #63
SilverElfin wrote: post #9

In Europe didn’t basically all brands take a hit? It was framed as Tesla falling behind but it’s more that Chinese EVs are so cheap, nothing can compete. Even within China the competition is insane, with over 100 car companies fighting to survive and giving out big discounts.

It isn't just Chinese EVs there are Korean brands on the road e.g. Jaewoo. https://jaecoo.co.uk/ I'm in the UK and the only new Fords I see are these huge F250/F350 which make my 4x4 (which is relatively small compared to a modern 4x4) look tiny.

You managed to write the name wrong, Jaecoo not Jaewoo, and it's chinese not korean. On top of that it's a throwaway account.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#74

Post by prmph »

mtrovo wrote: post #6
juujian wrote: post #2

Not just Tesla, all established brands we know are left behind. I never understood Volkswagen's pivot from 'wait and See's to 'were inversing billions' to 'we were too late, abort'. Largest brands n terms of units, completely left behind in an emerging segment that's already dominating it's largest market (China). So many executives in the industry just didn't see the writing on the wall. I don't what GM was thinking…

This is what makes the innovator's dilemma repeat itself so many times in so many industries. It's not that the incumbent companies don't see the new technology; it's that they're so entrenched in what they know how to do that pivoting to the new technology is basically a Hail Mary no matter how you do it. Do it too early and your shareholders are going to think you're crazy. Do it too late, and you're risking enteri…

Exactly, usually the companies know what's coming up, like you said. But, properly shifting gears to play a new game requires that you act like a startup again. It likely requires foregoing the fat margins you were used to. And it likely requires going back to the drawing board and actually learning from the market.

And this is what companies find it hard to do. To be fair, I think that is not so bad a things. Companies should rise and die naturally. A few companies monopolizing markets forever does not seem good.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#75

Post by _ea1k »

Marsymars wrote: post #49
darth_avocado wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford is a bad example because they’ve pretty much abandoned all their non truck and transit van segments for years. Even if EVs weren’t a thing, they do not compete in any of the segments and haven’t for almost a decade. First it was Japanese and German companies eating their lunch, now it’s the Chinese. Also, F150 lightening is such a failure. There was a recent video of it trying to haul very minimal load and it pr…

> Also, F150 lightening is such a failure. There was a recent video of it trying to haul very minimal load and it pretty much drained the battery in less than 100 miles. Was that due to something specific with the Lightning, or was it just due to the intrinsic energy requirements of hauling loads? (Or in other words, does an EV even exist that's notably better at hauling loads?)

TBH, those tests are mostly marketing failures. EV trucks aren't really good at hauling trailers over large distances, as the aerodynamics produce a massive impact on range.

Multiple tests have shown this by showing 50% or more range reduction from pulling lightweight, non-aerodynamic loads.

The marketing failure is that the companies have allowed consumers to incorrectly extrapolate from this to thinking that heavy loads in the bed have the same issue. They actually don't as weight is a minimal impact on range.

Unfortunately, every thread about carrying sheetrock, rocks, mulch, etc shows how misinformed the average consumer has become in this space. It has to be a significant impact on sales, given that in the US these are the only heavy loads carried by >50% of the half ton pickups sold here.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#76

Post by grosswait »

lostlogin wrote: post #60
bastawhiz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a Ford Mustang converted to electric I agree with your comment, but I'll be a little pedantic for a minute: As a Charger Daytona owner, I'd love to call the Mach-E a mustang, but it's really just borrowing the brand. Ford has said unequivocally that they'll never make an all-electric muscle car, which is a real shame. The Mach-E is a great car if you're turned off by a Model Y, but you wouldn't choose it over a mus…

> Ford has said unequivocally that they'll never make an all-electric muscle car What’s the thinking here? Pandering to some market segment? It sounds like they are organising the deck chairs in the titanic. Edit: I tried looking into the comment. It seems he was referring to Mustangs specifically, which is weird as they do make an electric one (assuming you agree it’s a ‘real’ mustang). I’m confused.

It’s not though. Just borrowing the name as they said.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#77

Post by MomsAVoxell »

weinzierl wrote: post #18

When I grew up in Germany it always made me proud that 100% of taxis were Mercedes Benz. If a car can withstand the rough demands of taxi service, it has to be good. And even in South America back then German cares were ubiquitous, especially Volkswagen. When I was in Brazil this spring[*] I rode a lot of Uber and they were 100% BYD - 100%, no exception. It's not that my head hadn't known that German auto was dead bu…

I've been riding a German electric motorbike for a couple of years, and before that, German electric mopeds.

I think there is a lot of innovation in the German electric vehicle industry. I am quite excited for BTM, my bikes manufacturer, to design and release new versions of their platform. This model is distinctly German.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#78

Post by nutjob2 »

weinzierl wrote: post #18

When I grew up in Germany it always made me proud that 100% of taxis were Mercedes Benz. If a car can withstand the rough demands of taxi service, it has to be good. And even in South America back then German cares were ubiquitous, especially Volkswagen. When I was in Brazil this spring[*] I rode a lot of Uber and they were 100% BYD - 100%, no exception. It's not that my head hadn't known that German auto was dead bu…

Sadly the German car industry has lost its way in the EV transition and is now vainly trying to get the EU to rollback the sun setting of ICE car sales in 3035.

Meanwhile the Chinese are eating their lunch.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#79

Post by LightBug1 »

>> "Chinese brands gain legitimacy, challenging Western carmakers"

Musk has been shaking around his political penis at just the same moment as the Chinese manufacturers came of age and are on course, now, to supplant Tesla completely.

And the Tesla shareholders / BoD waived through $1t pay package as a reward.

Dysfunctional Leadership writ large.

Re: Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America – without Tesla

#80

Post by ab_testing »

I feel like a lot of readers are missing the main point. US and European manufactures do not want to enter this low volume zero margin market. The total sales in Latin America (that includes Mexico and South America is around five million units - that is less than half of what is sold in the US each year. And at a price point of 20K it just does not make sense for American and European manufacturers given that their R&as costs are higher than Asian manufacturers and their North American models are too large and expensive for South America markets.

In addition they know that the US is a captive market as the government will not allow Chinese companies to sell their cars here due to data and security concerns.

So it does not make sense to chase tiny profits.

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