Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't care about ICE one way or another, but calling people "monkeys" and "losers" because they're not building a product to your exact specifications is extremely childish. It seems to me that the real "losers" are the ones spending so much time bitching and moaning about a software platform they don't like.
> I don't care about ICE one way or another, Which is itself a political position, a privileged one at that
Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
821–830 of 952 posts
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#822Wow. I think that's a serious mistake. Maybe GitHub is no longer so great and snappy but nowhere to justify moving something that needs: 1. Money, 2. Exposition, to something obscure just because it's a bit better. It's Git with an UI anyway, there isn't such large difference. I don't care about the fact the post is harsh: it's the content that it is broken from my POV because. It is absolutely legit to do something…
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#823> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…
It's okay to bring some "natural" language in technical communication. It feels more humane. All the whitewashed corporate language, riddled marketing bullshit feels so soul dead.
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#824Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right, I've been hearing lots of good things about Zig and I wanted to check it out but I'm glad I saw this post. I want no part of this thing. I've heard people call other people "monkeys" before in a work setting. it's never good. Fact is, you don't need to call anyone names or insult them. The takeaway for me is that the Zig project is led by people who are extremely immature and toxic. I simply don't trust…
> I've heard people call other people "monkeys" before in a work setting. it's never good. Is this blog post in a work setting? Oh my. You should probably run to HR and report unprofessional behavior! Oh wait.
If Andrew considers Zig a professional software to be used in production environments, then this is a indeed a professional setting. If not, then it is a hobby project run by immature/whiny people like you, so let's just ignore it and talk about more serious people/projects.
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#825Earlier quoted context omitted.
And what's wrong with that? Even if you're right, just don't use it, why insult and denigrate people?
Because they deserve to know they're making the world a worse place.
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#826Earlier quoted context omitted.
The absolute state of Github is that I use it dozens of times a day and it works flawlessly, for free, with intermittent outages. Microsoft is doing more with Github than I can say for most of their products. I won't go to bat for the Xbox or Windows teams, but Github is... fine. Almost offensively usable.
> works flawlessly > intermittent outages Those seem like conflicting statements to me. Last outage was only 13 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45915731 . Also, there have been increasing reports of open source maintainers dealing with LLM generated PRs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46039274 . GitHub seems perfectly positioned to help manage that issue, but in all likelihood will do nothing abo…
I genuinely don't understand this position. Is this not what Github issues bots were made for? No matter where your repo is hosted, you take the onus of moderating it onto yourself.
Downtimes are an issue, it's why I jokingly mentioned it. Besides that I'm without gripe. Make Github a high-nines service and I'll keep using it until the wheels fall off.
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#827> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#828Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel like the distinction is equivalent to LLMs can make mistakes. Humans can't. Humans can and do make mistakes all the time. LLMs can automate most of the boring stuff, including unit tests with 100% coverage. They can cover edge cases you ask them to and they can even come up with edge cases you may not have thought about. This leaves you to do the review. I think think the underlying problem people have is they…
If unit tests are boring chores for you, or 100% coverage is somehow a goal in itself, then your understanding of quality software development is quite lacking overall. Tests are specifications: they define behavior, set boundaries, and keep the inevitable growth of complexity under control. Good tests are what keep a competent developer sane. You cannot build quality software without starting from tests. So if tests…
I set boundaries during design where I choose responsibilities, interfaces and names. Red Green Refactor is very useful for beginners who would otherwise define boundaries that are difficult to test and maintain.
I design components that are small and focused so their APIs are simple and unit tests are incredibly easy to define and implement, usually parametrized. Unit tests don't keep me "sane", they keep me sleeping well at night because designing doesn't drive me mad. They don't define how the "program" is supposed to work, they define how the unit is supposed to work. The smaller the unit the simpler the test. I hope you agree: simple is better than complex. And no, I don't subscribe to "you only need integration tests".
Otherwise, nice battery of ad hominems you managed to slip in: my understanding of quality software is lacking, my problem is my approach to engineering and I'm an immature developer. All that from "LLMs can automate most of the boring stuff, including unit tests with 100% coverage." because you can't fathom how someone can design quality software without TDD, and you can't steelman my argument (even though it's recommended in the guidelines [1]). I do review and correct the LLM output. I almost always ask it for specific test cases to be implemented. I also enjoy seeing most basic test cases and most edge cases covered. And no, I don't particularly enjoy writing factories, setups, and asserts. I'm pretty happy to review them.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#829Looking at these comments, it's painfully apparent how many think that being polite in your communication is more important than actually doing something. I agree it would have been nicer if the message was more polite. But if you compare that to having the backbone follow through with meaningful long-term changes against a corporation you don't trust or respect, there shouldn't even be a discussion. And don't even g…
I wouldn't even call it politeness, it's more like basic human decency. Would Andrew Kelly appreciate it if the LLVM guys publicly wrote a blog post calling the Zig maintainers losers and monkeys? Just screams of immaturity, which isn't surprising seeing their political views.
Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg
#830Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fetish for "manners" has stood in the way of every single positive societal change. It's exactly what MLK meant with the white moderate favoring a negative peace over positive change: the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which i…
MLK was, of course, famous for hurling vitriolic personal insults at people he disagreed with. You should really take a step back and consider if MLK’s struggle for racial equality is an appropriate point of comparison for an open source project deciding to change to a different CI provider.
To the type of nerds who crash out about a git hosting provider and publicly insult other developers, moving off GitHub might even be more meaningful than whatever MLK did.