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GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

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Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#121

Post by mardifoufs »

dragonwriter wrote: post #83
mardifoufs wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Canadian parliament can vote laws that break/infringe upon most of our charter rights with a simple majority, using the non-withstanding clause. The Quebec government has already used it and is signaling that it will use that clause even more often. Again, that requires a simple parliament majority and courts aren't allowed to really do anything about a law once that clause is invoked. That makes for one of the w…

> but it still makes us unique in the west since it's just a "routine" clause that can be invoked to suspend almost every possible legal challenge against a law It is not unique in the West, or even specifically in those parts of the West that share the same head of state as Canada; in fact, Britain itself has a more extreme form of it given Parliamentary sovereignty.

It is unique in the sense that the charter itself has a clause that makes itself almost useless. And that provinces can also use it at will (that's really the main problem, as the federal government is way less likely to use it, and hasn't used it), and doing so short circuits any federal court oversight.

But I agree that parliamentary sovereignty is an even bigger can of worms.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#122

Post by suspended_state »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #90
suspended_state wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the last line in your comment: if Telegram doesn't have good encryption, why would anyone require to have a backdoor installed? Are you implying that the French government isn't able to decrypt a bad encryption scheme? Or that the idea that this government asked for a backdoor is preposterous?

Encryption doesn't have to be backdoord because none of the group chats on telegram are encrypted (telegram gets to claim it's "encrypted" because it's TLS between client and server, but e2ee is not claimed except for inconvenient device-to-device chat. In any case, the back door may be more of a Room 641A arrangement where all messages are intercepted by the host government, saving them the trouble of installing soc…

It's possible that at some point in the past they used TLS, but I believe that MTProto(0) is used now for any communication through Telegram.

(0): https://core.telegram.org/mtproto

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#123

Post by 0x1ch »

halJordan wrote: post #91
0x1ch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't France intercept Telegram's CEO to force him to backdoor the app while in country? Yes. Yes they did.

They didn't. TG has never defaulted to e2ee and TG refused to provide the non-e2ee data they had. That is refusing to comply with the law. You guys hurt your argument so much by straight up lying so you can feel self righteous anger over it

Being arrested as you walk off your flight sure seems like unjust prosecution.They had him for charges all the way up to being complicit in CSAM distribution. They wanted to hang him, or get what they wanted...

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#124

Post by immibis »

zamadatix wrote: post #117
immibis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing to me that everyone even slightly disliked by the ruling class isn't doing this. Like remember when Nintendo took down a bunch of Switch emulators... from GitHub? Why were they primarily on GitHub?

GitHub is a great, free as in $, and convenient place to be. So long as they weren't ONLY on GitHub (they weren't, the source code is still around) they can get the best of both worlds before and after. The deeper problem for the Switch emulators was letting their personal life be linked to it so Nintendo could seek legal pressure against them directly.

If you host on any mainstream site, you can expect they're recording your IP address, your ISP is recording who has that address, and both of them will rapidly give it up to anyone who seems official or legally scary enough.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#125

Post by immibis »

0x1ch wrote: post #123
halJordan wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't. TG has never defaulted to e2ee and TG refused to provide the non-e2ee data they had. That is refusing to comply with the law. You guys hurt your argument so much by straight up lying so you can feel self righteous anger over it

Being arrested as you walk off your flight sure seems like unjust prosecution.They had him for charges all the way up to being complicit in CSAM distribution. They wanted to hang him, or get what they wanted...

It's very normal. You get arrested anywhere they physically can, and then you go through a trial, which may be in a real court or a kangaroo one.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#126

Post by immibis »

sophrosyne42 wrote: post #84
maelito wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Durov runs an app where slave trade was known and documented, and did nothing.

Can you believe that the cash Euro is used in crime, human trafficking, and exploitatiom everywhere, and the US hasn't invaded Europe to stop them from supporting human rights violations all over the earth?

And institutions who handle cash are required to turn over their records to investigate such crimes. So are chat apps. Telegram refused.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#127

Post by victorbjorklund »

0x1ch wrote: post #123
halJordan wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't. TG has never defaulted to e2ee and TG refused to provide the non-e2ee data they had. That is refusing to comply with the law. You guys hurt your argument so much by straight up lying so you can feel self righteous anger over it

Being arrested as you walk off your flight sure seems like unjust prosecution.They had him for charges all the way up to being complicit in CSAM distribution. They wanted to hang him, or get what they wanted...

What? Why should criminals be protected specifically when they are walking of their flight?

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#128

Post by sophrosyne42 »

immibis wrote: post #126
sophrosyne42 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you believe that the cash Euro is used in crime, human trafficking, and exploitatiom everywhere, and the US hasn't invaded Europe to stop them from supporting human rights violations all over the earth?

And institutions who handle cash are required to turn over their records to investigate such crimes. So are chat apps. Telegram refused.

So why doesn't the EU hand over its secrets to the US? Seems like the EU is a dangerous supporter of terrorism and human trafficking that should be dissolved

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#129

Post by xethos »

ranger_danger wrote: post #120
port11 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if you explain it properly, most people would be concerned. Privacy is a nebulous term, but what does it enable? The right to be yourself, to expose what you want, to take back mistakes, to keep for yourself somethings that you don't want to share. Privacy is therefore the right to be yourself. You do have something to hide, you don't want everyone knowing your deepest thoughts, aspirations, all of your…

I don't think people would be concerned about that explanation either... I think they need to hear real-world consequences, of which the only one I can remotely think of would be identity theft, and the chances of that happening I think are still slim among all the people whose info has even already been exposed publicly. How does privacy enable one to "not know your deepest thoughts" if you're aren't giving that inf…

> I don't think people would be concerned about that explanation either... I think they need to hear real-world consequences

I think you're right. I'm not hopeful the general population will change and suddenly say "E2EE matters, dammit!". Because the small scale consequences are boiling the frog, and the major ones "could never happen to me".

I'm sure we've all seen the Google account that got nuked [0, 1], but pointing that out to people is likely to garner responses ranging from "But I need Google for $thing" to "I don't have kids, so I'm fine". We unfortunately don't have any medium-scale fallout - just ghost stories of one guy, one time, being bitten.

[0] Costing the guy his phone number, photos, emails, contacts, any paid apps, documents in Google Drive, and presumably associating his credit card, address, and name with a banned account. Given how Google relies on automation for flagging and harassing accounts, I'd expect his troubles aren't over just yet should he make a new Google account.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/21/23315513/google-photos-cs...

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#130

Post by maelito »

jojobas wrote: post #72
maelito wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Durov runs an app where slave trade was known and documented, and did nothing.

If your answer to slave trade using encryption is "deny encryption to everyone" we'll have to agree to disagree.

Telegram is not encrypted. These channels where not.
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