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GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

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Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#61

Post by gruez »

Bender wrote: post #2

They should consider making their primary site a .onion and then have clear-web portals in many countries that serve as a secondary class site or cache . The physical location of the primary site should be unknown.

How does this increase security? The actual code is distributed over github and is digitally signed. Same goes for the installers/updates. Attempts to replace the contents would be easily detected, and would won't do much, aside from maybe compromising someone installing in that short time frame. Moreover darknet sites have an identity problem. It's easy to validate that "grapheneos.org" is the official site, not least because there's no grapheneos.com or similar. If you're using a hidden service you'll get an address like graphenenlhxh74dsi1kk1k8se0wutcc2v4f7bnohqe8zxbkfk8z3wp8.onion. How do you know whether that's the official site, or graphenenlhxr1uvl0i8oiuzx587fpgcesik0apij5axd1a0xbdvj5eg.onion?

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#62

Post by neilv »

protimewaster wrote: post #30
neilv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

I was going to say something along these lines. There was a post on the GrapheneOS forums a while back, from Micay, claiming that a well-known YouTuber who had backtracked on recommending GrapheneOS (because of Micay's behavior, according to the YouTuber) had probably actually backtracked because the YouTuber was financially involved with a competing project. My initial reaction to the post was, "Oh, I guess this is…

Yeah, I think it's fair to say that Micay knows a million times more about this technical and application space, and the political and business dynamics around it, than most HNers.

And I also believe that he's actually been personally targeted for harassment, from multiple directions, over the years.

So he's learned and earned some... vigilance.

And overall, I suspect that GrapheneOS is much better for the vigilant mindset.

I donated money partly with this in mind.

I don't know whether the project has a PR expert working with them already, but if not, that would be a nice pairing with the very smart and vigilant people on the team.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#63

Post by jasonvorhe »

neilv wrote: post #59
jasonvorhe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people rather trust some newspaper or magazine instead of investing 10 minutes into researching on their own only to then start sockpuppeting for the conclusions of the author who probably didn't do their due diligence in writing the piece in the first place.

"Sockpuppeting" has connotations that don't apply here, and it's an important term for other pressing purposes, so we don't want to dilute it. Does "parroting" express your intent well enough?

I was struggling with the term myself being a non-native speaker. I appreciate your suggestion, it's a much better fit. Thanks!

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#64

Post by iamnothere »

palata wrote: post #35
ranger_danger wrote: post #11

For what it's worth, Micay has a long history of accusing other people of slandering the project without providing any evidence or rebuttals. When asked for details, he gets defensive and accusatory, then creates multiple sockpuppet accounts to argue the same points over and over.

I read about this when I first discovered GrapheneOS, and it looked like it. And it may be partially correct. But on the other hand, I have read a lot of "drama" between e.g. /e/OS and GrapheneOS, and more often than not, it looked like GrapheneOS was criticising actual limitations of /e/OS and /e/OS (a mix of the community and official comms) seemed to be the one being unfair. GrapheneOS generally is pretty direct a…

This is likewise my experience. It’s true that Micay is prickly and unwilling to prioritize social grace over technical accuracy, but that’s kind of what I’d like to see for a project like this.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#65

Post by bigbadfeline »

idle_zealot wrote: post #51
jjgreen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A world-weary cynicism suffices.

I expect that most cynics would just keep their heads down and use iOS or something. The intense idealism needed to motivate something like Graphene is compatible with paranoia, but not with weariness.

> The intense idealism needed to motivate something like Graphene

Yes, the intense idealism of the brainwashed and oblivious prompted the realistic Graphene creators to do something themselves instead of waiting for other realistic folks who happen to be few and far between.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#66

Post by Grimblewald »

iamnothere wrote: post #64
palata wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read about this when I first discovered GrapheneOS, and it looked like it. And it may be partially correct. But on the other hand, I have read a lot of "drama" between e.g. /e/OS and GrapheneOS, and more often than not, it looked like GrapheneOS was criticising actual limitations of /e/OS and /e/OS (a mix of the community and official comms) seemed to be the one being unfair. GrapheneOS generally is pretty direct a…

This is likewise my experience. It’s true that Micay is prickly and unwilling to prioritize social grace over technical accuracy, but that’s kind of what I’d like to see for a project like this.

Honestly, this thread has done more to sell me on graphene than anything else. This makes me think its a fully serious and ridigid in its integrity endevour.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#67

Post by cladopa »

aunty_helen wrote: post #20
Lariscus wrote: post #17

This looks hugely blown out of proportion. The project founder has a well documented history of what I would consider a persecution complex. Once again he has provided no substantial evidence. The only thing they provided are some, admittedly borderline libelous, news articles. Unless they provide some more concrete information about these supposed attempts of getting a backdoor installed into the system, I will cons…

Don’t you need that sort of paranoia to go out and create a privacy focused mobile OS?

It is not called "paranoia" if it is real that they are coming after you.

Have you not seen what happened to Telegram CEO?

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#68

Post by mschuster91 »

palata wrote: post #42
aborsy wrote: post #27

Canada is liberal and a better option for hosting privacy projects than EU. Every few months a bad proposal comes out of somewhere in EU. The details of this case don’t matter, the tendency is big government control.

EU is not a country. There are many different countries in the EU.

EU has reciprocal arrest warrants and other treaties to assist law enforcement.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#69

Post by 0x1ch »

concinds wrote: post #24
Lariscus wrote: post #17

This looks hugely blown out of proportion. The project founder has a well documented history of what I would consider a persecution complex. Once again he has provided no substantial evidence. The only thing they provided are some, admittedly borderline libelous, news articles. Unless they provide some more concrete information about these supposed attempts of getting a backdoor installed into the system, I will cons…

The evidence is not "news articles", but the contents of those articles where a high-ranking prosecutor threatened to go after GrapheneOS "if they don't cooperate with the law". No matter your feelings about the creator, I think this was entirely the rational choice. France is pro-Chat Control. For about a year now there's been an anti-drug trafficking fervor among legislators and government, in which they've pushed…

Didn't France intercept Telegram's CEO to force him to backdoor the app while in country?

Yes. Yes they did.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#70

Post by bigbadfeline »

rgblambda wrote: post #50
sunshine-o wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to the founder of Telegram should be enough to discourage any of them to travel in France. Especially since I guess they do not have the same kind of money and influence to fight it back.

A European Arrest Warrant would make the entire EU off limits. Which makes me think they haven't thought this through and are just overreacting, as many on this thread suspect. If the GrapheneOS maintainers were being advised by a lawyer, they'd surely know that if French Authorities wanted them arrested and they were standing on a street corner in Stockholm, they could just as easily be picked up by police as if the…

> Which makes me think they haven't thought this through and are just overreacting.

You're contradicting yourself. If "they haven't thought this through" they clearly haven't been paranoid enough but in that case they aren't overreacting, they're under-reacting. They need to transfer development out of the EU, not just out of France. That's one unexpected benefit of Brexit, btw.

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