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GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

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Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#21

Post by fooqux »

mmooss wrote: post #7

I understand the concerns and anger of GrapheneOS's leadership, but the hyper-escalation tactic doesn't do what they hope: First, it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation, and conflict resolution: 'I'm going to take my ball and leave' - it looks like an emotional overreaction without strategic thinking. These days you sometimes see powerful parties making similar threats - e.g., Uber threatening to…

> it sends the message that GrapheneOS can be pushed around and manipulated: A slight hint of a threat and they flee.

Somehow I doubt France thinks they "won". What they wanted was a back door into the OS. Not only did they not get that but they lost what little bargaining power they had when gOS left France.

> it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation

You don't negotiate with terrorists. Obviously France isn't a terror organization but the point is the same: you don't play their game. You play your own.

Leaving the country is exactly that.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#22

Post by hacker_homie »

Bender wrote: post #2

They should consider making their primary site a .onion and then have clear-web portals in many countries that serve as a secondary class site or cache . The physical location of the primary site should be unknown.

We can only use technical solutions to this problem for so long.

The real issue is that the public wants a right to digital privacy.

The state would not like you to have that because they are lazy and want to be able to look at your messages.

Because they have convinced themselves that messages are a crime.

This is a political problem not a technical one.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#23

Post by [deleted] »

Lariscus wrote: post #17

This looks hugely blown out of proportion. The project founder has a well documented history of what I would consider a persecution complex. Once again he has provided no substantial evidence. The only thing they provided are some, admittedly borderline libelous, news articles. Unless they provide some more concrete information about these supposed attempts of getting a backdoor installed into the system, I will cons…

[deleted]

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#24

Post by concinds »

Lariscus wrote: post #17

This looks hugely blown out of proportion. The project founder has a well documented history of what I would consider a persecution complex. Once again he has provided no substantial evidence. The only thing they provided are some, admittedly borderline libelous, news articles. Unless they provide some more concrete information about these supposed attempts of getting a backdoor installed into the system, I will cons…

The evidence is not "news articles", but the contents of those articles where a high-ranking prosecutor threatened to go after GrapheneOS "if they don't cooperate with the law".

No matter your feelings about the creator, I think this was entirely the rational choice.

France is pro-Chat Control. For about a year now there's been an anti-drug trafficking fervor among legislators and government, in which they've pushed for encryption backdoors (separate from Chat Control at the EU level) and recently threatened GrapheneOS. The country is politically unstable so future politics are hard to predict, but anti-encryption politicians stand a good chance of winning the next election. Any rational project would move out.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#25

Post by t3rra »

mmooss wrote: post #7

I understand the concerns and anger of GrapheneOS's leadership, but the hyper-escalation tactic doesn't do what they hope: First, it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation, and conflict resolution: 'I'm going to take my ball and leave' - it looks like an emotional overreaction without strategic thinking. These days you sometimes see powerful parties making similar threats - e.g., Uber threatening to…

Ok, Johanna Brousse

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#26

Post by eloisant »

fooqux wrote: post #21
mmooss wrote: post #7

I understand the concerns and anger of GrapheneOS's leadership, but the hyper-escalation tactic doesn't do what they hope: First, it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation, and conflict resolution: 'I'm going to take my ball and leave' - it looks like an emotional overreaction without strategic thinking. These days you sometimes see powerful parties making similar threats - e.g., Uber threatening to…

> it sends the message that GrapheneOS can be pushed around and manipulated: A slight hint of a threat and they flee. Somehow I doubt France thinks they "won". What they wanted was a back door into the OS. Not only did they not get that but they lost what little bargaining power they had when gOS left France. > it sends a message of inexperience in business, negotiation You don't negotiate with terrorists. Obviously…

If you want my opinion GrapheneOS isn't on the radar of the French government at all, so they don't think they "won" or "lost". It's kind of a "I don't think about you at all" Mad Men Meme.

It's just a few cops who said "I don't like that we can't crack it", and a journalist who asked the prosecutor who got Durov arrested and she said "well sure if they break the law we could sue them".

The only party that is getting hurt about this whole thing is their French hosting company, OVH, who tried to calm down the situation and talk to explain him that they can still safely use OVH.

https://mastodon.social/@_bapt_/115585566888497543

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#28

Post by sunshine-o »

Lariscus wrote: post #17

This looks hugely blown out of proportion. The project founder has a well documented history of what I would consider a persecution complex. Once again he has provided no substantial evidence. The only thing they provided are some, admittedly borderline libelous, news articles. Unless they provide some more concrete information about these supposed attempts of getting a backdoor installed into the system, I will cons…

What happened to the founder of Telegram should be enough to discourage any of them to travel in France.

Especially since I guess they do not have the same kind of money and influence to fight it back.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#29

Post by bluGill »

aborsy wrote: post #27

Canada is liberal and a better option for hosting privacy projects than EU. Every few months a bad proposal comes out of somewhere in EU. The details of this case don’t matter, the tendency is big government control.

There is no place in the world where there are not bad proposals all the time. Some places are worse than others, but everyplace has problems and needs to be watched.

Re: GrapheneOS migrates server infrastructure from France

#30

Post by protimewaster »

neilv wrote: post #14
ranger_danger wrote: post #11

For what it's worth, Micay has a long history of accusing other people of slandering the project without providing any evidence or rebuttals. When asked for details, he gets defensive and accusatory, then creates multiple sockpuppet accounts to argue the same points over and over.

"Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

I was going to say something along these lines.

There was a post on the GrapheneOS forums a while back, from Micay, claiming that a well-known YouTuber who had backtracked on recommending GrapheneOS (because of Micay's behavior, according to the YouTuber) had probably actually backtracked because the YouTuber was financially involved with a competing project. My initial reaction to the post was, "Oh, I guess this is that paranoia I've heard about with Micay." My thought was reenforced when it was further claimed, in that thread, that the YouTuber was active in a forum well known for online bullying of people they don't like. The whole thing definitely sounded paranoid.

In the thread, though, there was in fact linked paperwork where the YouTuber had registered the company in question, and also links to a verified account on the forums in question (using the YouTuber's real name).

So, yeah, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

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