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Implications of AI to schools

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Re: Implications of AI to schools

#251

Post by teekert »

Borealid wrote: post #242
teekert wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this, but also as an adult; When you are a non-native speaker and you use AI to make things more concise and correct. The detector will go off. People may find some wording "AI-ish" (even though I replaced em-dashes with commas and told it to "avoid American waiter-like enthusiasm"). My reaction is: Ok. you want my original? Which is much harder to read and uses 2x the amount of words? Fine. I mean, what is the…

Is it possible the same problems that cause you to write less-readable words also lead you to choose poor AI outputs? If no, why not? Personally I would rather read a human's output than their selection of machine outputs.

I guess you've never read the English of a Dutch person ;) During my PhD defense I was told I "should have checked with a native speaker." Pre-LLMs, I'd go to my American colleague and she'd mostly remove text and rewrite some bit to make texts much more readable.

Nowadays, often I put my text into the LLM, and say: Make more concise, include all original points, don't be enthusiastic, use business style writing. And then it will come with some lines of which I think: Yes! That is what I meant!

I can't imagine you'd rather read my Dunglish. Sure, I could have "studied harder", but one simply is just much more clever in their native tongue, I know more words, more subtleties etc. Over time, and I believe due to LLM use I do get better at it myself! It's a language model after all, not a facts model. I can trust it to make nice sentences.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#252

Post by hazbot »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #63

I think legacy schooling just needs to be reworked. Kids should be doing way more projects that demonstrate the integration of knowledge and skills, rather than focusing so much energy on testing and memorization. There's probably a small core of things that really must be fully integrated and memorized, but for everything else you should just give kids harder projects which they're expected to solve by leveraging al…

I just went and had a flutter at being a high school math teacher. I went in saying 'I never used math to create until my honours year, I want different for my students'.

I soon changed my mind; I think those of us who become expert have often have really rich memories of a project where we learnt so much, but we just don't remember episodically all the accumulated learning that happened in boring classrooms to enable the project-induced higher order synthesis.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#253

Post by gonzobonzo »

respondo2134 wrote: post #125
huevosabio wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in college, there was a cheating scandal for the final exam where somehow people got their hands on the hardest question of the exam. The professor noticed it (presumably via seeing poor "show your work") and gave zero points on the question to everyone. And once you went to complain about your grade, she would ask you to explain the answer there in her office and work through the problem live. I thought i…

Except the power imbalance: position, experience, social, etc. meant that the vast majority just took the zero and never complained or challenged the prof. Sounds like your typical out-of-touch academic who thought they were super clever.

It's an incredible abuse of power to intentionally mark innocent students' answers wrong when they're correct. Just to solve your own problem, that you may very well be responsible for.

Knowing the way a lot of professors act, I'm not surprised, but it's always disheartening to see how many behave like petty tyrants who are happy to throw around their power over the young.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#254

Post by hazbot »

dartharva wrote: post #159
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #63

I think legacy schooling just needs to be reworked. Kids should be doing way more projects that demonstrate the integration of knowledge and skills, rather than focusing so much energy on testing and memorization. There's probably a small core of things that really must be fully integrated and memorized, but for everything else you should just give kids harder projects which they're expected to solve by leveraging al…

But testing and paper assessments are cheap and feasible for mass education. There are only so many workshop projects you can have before you run out of budget.

Projects are less efficient for learning foundational skills. They have their place, but with infinite funds I would still give my children an education with a bedrock of boring drill and testing and memorisation.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#255

Post by lqet »

ecshafer wrote: post #11

In my CS undergrad I had Doug Lea as a professor, really fantastic professor (best teacher I have ever had, bar none). He had a really novel way to handle homework hand ins, you had to demo the project. So you got him to sit down with you, you ran the code, he would ask you to put some inputs in (that were highly likely to be edge cases to break it). Once that was sufficient, he would ask you how you did different th…

Strongly agree. I was involved with several CS lectures in the past ~10 years that did not require a final exam, and we always did a 1:1 session between student and tutor in which the tutor asked the student detailed questions about their past exercise sheet solutions. Over the years, I estimate that I conducted about 100 of such 1:1s. It was always obvious when the students did not write the code themselves. They couldn't really explain their design process, they didn't encounter the edge cases themselves during testing, and you couldn't discuss possible improvements with them.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#256

Post by oblio »

amrocha wrote: post #230
oblio wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stress levels for introverts.

You’re gonna have to talk about your work to people that matter at some point in your life. You can’t keep hiding behind being an introvert your whole life.

1. I'm not introvert :-)

2. Speaking about your work in front of 1-2-5 people is one thing, but being tested in front of an entire class (30 people?) is a totally different thing.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#257

Post by oblio »

anoplus wrote: post #248
oblio wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, it will get worse. There was a deficit of tech workers, from now on, there will be an excess. Which means that differentiators will be even more important.

The smaller the job market relative to candidates, the more the differentiators are both important and also meaningless to the actual job

We gotta play the game, though.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#258

Post by hsuduebc2 »

edwcross wrote: post #166
ubj wrote: post #7

One of my students recently came to me with an interesting dilemma. His sister had written (without AI tools) an essay for another class, and her teacher told her that an "AI detection tool" had classified it as having been written by AI with "100% confidence". He was going to give her a zero on the assignment. Putting aside the ludicrous confidence score, the student's question was: how could his sister convince the…

Always stunned by how much teachers can accuse without proof and invert the "innocent until proven guilty". Honestly, students should have a course in "how the justice system works" (or at least should work). So should the teachers. Student unions and similar entities should exist and be ready to intervene to help students in such situations. This is nothing new, AI will just make this happen more often, revealing ho…

It’s strange watching people put so much faith in these so called “AI detection tools”. Nobody really knows how they work yet they’re treated like flawless judges. In practice they’re black boxes that quietly decide who gets flagged for “fraud”, and because the tool said so everyone pretends it must be true. The result is a neat illusion that all the “cheaters” were caught, when in reality the system is mostly just picking people at random and giving the process a fake sense of certainty.

Bizzare and unfair

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#259

Post by hazbot »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #68

I think part of the reason AI is having such a negative effect on schools in particular is because of how many education processes are reliant on an archaic, broken way of "learning." So much of it is focused upon memorization and regurgitation of information (which AI is unmatched at doing). School is packed with inefficiency and busywork that is completely divorced from the way people learn on their own. In fact, i…

The way you learn is totally different from the way a novice learns; they don't have a vast memorised store of knowledge, let alone the connected structure over that memorised knowledge. When you learn something, it gets incoporated thanks to these foundations.

But the foundations start with memorisation.

Re: Implications of AI to schools

#260

Post by idiotsecant »

rgblambda wrote: post #97
lazyasciiart wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if she advertised that option somehow. I worked two jobs in college, I didn't take time off to go complain about my grades.

Not to mention there'd be at least a few students too timid to challenge the teacher, even if they knew they got it right.

That's a valid and useful lesson, especially for the shy students. Arguably, it's probably more important than whatever the question on the test was.

The world at large rarely accommodates shy people. Coping skills are essential, even if they are unpleasant.

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