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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#221

Post by somenameforme »

scandox wrote: post #170
etangent wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. A lot of stuff "normal" people do is charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Except because they are not conscious about it, we give them a pass. One of the characteristics of autistic-spectrum individuals is that they must make a conscious effort to achieve goals that are achieved unconsciously by most of u…

That is a mistake I think. Many 'normal' people who grow up (emotionally) make a conscious effort not to instrumentalize their social interactions even if they do know how to do it. Certainly with friends they aim to be authentic. I think emulating things that a serious person discards is a step backwards.

I wouldn't say just friends either. The biggest leap I made in social stuff is to simply stop caring what other people think. If somebody doesn't like me, cool - there's plenty of other people. If they do? Awesome, because they're getting the 'real' me, so it's probably going to be a good relationship.

Basically I think a lot of people's issues with social stuff starts with something analogous to a boy who never asks a girl out for fear that she'll say no. People don't engage in interactions, or try to be overly pleasing, to try to appeal to other people.

But that's never going to lead to a good relationship, because it's fake, and it'll feel exhausting. By contrast when you stop caring, you might be surprised to find people like you even more, it becomes even easier to form "real" relationships, and suddenly social interactions aren't tiring at all.

This becomes even easier after having kids because you're probably not really seeking relations in any meaningful way, so you completely genuinely just don't care. And then paradoxically it becomes so much easier. Well, at least it becomes wisdom you can hand down to your own kids, or random anons online.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#222

Post by intended »

Aurornis wrote: post #189
etangent wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. A lot of stuff "normal" people do is charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Except because they are not conscious about it, we give them a pass. One of the characteristics of autistic-spectrum individuals is that they must make a conscious effort to achieve goals that are achieved unconsciously by most of u…

> A lot of stuff "normal" people do is charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Except because they are not conscious about it, we give them a pass. I don’t think that’s a fair comparison to what’s describe in this blog post. The writer describes taking on different personas and trying different tricks with other people portrayed as subjects of some sort of experiment. The casual mentions of how they tried so…

The “trick” you are referring to, requires you to care about other people in the first place.

As I recall, the section this came up was when they were coaching.

This does feel like another instance of how people have a deep instinctual grasp of social interactions, but a shallow ability to articulate the moving parts in detail.

I think the analogy was “everyone know how to use the flush, but they can’t explain the mechanisms behind it”

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#223

Post by sandspar »

Having social power is like owning a gun. Yes it's nice to have it and not use it. But there's often a temptation to use it. And if you use it incorrectly then someone can get hurt.

You spend years honing your skill with a weapon and then you stop using it.

The hard part is feeling like your weapon isn't being used. But you need to accept that disuse can be good. Otherwise you end up hurting people.

Basically, don't treat people like toys.

The author's next step will probably be to find places where he can go at full speed. Perhaps grief counseling, the clergy, hospice visits, or something along those lines.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#224

Post by zdc1 »

acuozzo wrote: post #96
donatj wrote: post #52

> The other day, someone told me, “I can’t imagine you ever being awkward with people.” I was telling my therapist of several years recently about being uncomfortable with the number of new people I've had to meet recently. He seemed surprised that I wasn't excited by it all and said something along the lines of "You seem like a very social person, that seems out of character." It struck me… am I really that good at…

> I have zero idea how to make small talk with people I haven't known for years. Forget small talk. Listen-- really listen --and engage with open ears. When it's your turn to talk, offer up an anecdote in reply if it's on topic or take the opportunity to pivot to a related topic you're passionate about. If you do the latter: do. not. info-dump. Give them a chance to play the game I just described to you from their si…

I would also add that people generally try too hard with small talk. It's SMALL talk. Tell them about the new brand of jam you put on your toast this breakfast. Ask them what they had for breakfast. Or recount your last trip to the grocery store.

Trying too hard kills the fun of the interaction. You're really just getting a ball rolling. Who cares where it starts, just see where it goes.

Also, as TFA also mentioned, it's not what you say but how you say it. >80% of the value of the interaction is just (non-verbally) showing you're happy that they're there.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#225

Post by pixl97 »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #187
collingreen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes we find it distasteful to have things we're fully aware of explicitly spelled out. A trite quip here is "nobody wants to see how the sausage is made".

Sometimes doing something explicit that is typically done without thought or plan feels phony and off. This is such a scenario.

Embracing the bliss of ignorance.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#227

Post by voidhorse »

You want to know why "social connection" is difficult? Because actually social connection is not a generalize abstraction you get good at.

I see this increasingly in contemporary society. People increasingly tackle certain aspects of their life as generalized problems to solve. They want to "get better at social connection" or "be more athletic" or "be more productive". None of these things are ends in themselves. This is a tendency toward egocentrism and needless abstraction that plagues a lot of people.

In reality, life consists of concrete things. We can only become more productive once we have an actual goal in mind. Talking about productivity in the abstract is meaningless. We cannot determine our social connections in advance. We have or desire certain or more friends, we want to improve certain relationships. By starting from such an abstract place as "wanting to connect" or "being socially normal" you are basically doomed from the start. Connect with who? What is normal? These are not generalized problems to solve, they are rather determined by others. Viewing them this way stinks of main character syndrome—you don't actually care about or value other people, you view all of life through the lens of yourself and see all possible engagements as little more than reflections on your own personal player "stats". Yearning to "connect" with "people" is a completely meaningless and empty desire.

The atomization of individuals and hyperindividualism caused this. Social anxieties and struggles to learn how to properly socialize arise the more isolated we become, and the more distant and rare our interactions with others become. People raised in highly group-oriented and community focused environments don't have these issues to nearly the same degree, for obvious reasons—they learn how to actually care about other people, rather than view life as nothing more than "my personal journey" or as a challenge for nothing other than self-oriented improvement or self enlightenment.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#228

Post by [deleted] »

somenameforme wrote: post #221
scandox wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a mistake I think. Many 'normal' people who grow up (emotionally) make a conscious effort not to instrumentalize their social interactions even if they do know how to do it. Certainly with friends they aim to be authentic. I think emulating things that a serious person discards is a step backwards.

I wouldn't say just friends either. The biggest leap I made in social stuff is to simply stop caring what other people think. If somebody doesn't like me, cool - there's plenty of other people. If they do? Awesome, because they're getting the 'real' me, so it's probably going to be a good relationship. Basically I think a lot of people's issues with social stuff starts with something analogous to a boy who never asks…

[deleted]

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#229

Post by voidhorse »

rester324 wrote: post #176

Does this person have some kind of mental issue? I am seriosuly asking this, not mocking him. Because by reading through this post it stands out to me that he doesn't mention or highlights empathy. And that's where his problem stems from

Precisely. And it's quite concerning that several people think this is a good exemplar to follow.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#230

Post by rustystump »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #126
Aurornis wrote: post #47

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

They call that too: > There are two reactions that one could have to the previous section. “Wow, that’s cool, how he developed the ability to create a lot of deep connections in this lonely world.” And: “that is a weird and creepy thing to want, sounds kind of vampiric.” I believe that both reactions are correct in some proportion. > Here is the thing about going around the world in a state of emotional openness and…

I remember being in my early twenties very awkwark. I read a few books on socializing. I basically did what this post is describing. It takes sustained effort and writing those emotional checks costs you more than you think to both parties.

It isnt hard to engage on a deep level with people but most dont for a reason. It is exhausting and can send the wrong signals.

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