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My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

sashachapin.substack.com

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Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#111

Post by SeanAnderson »

hypeatei wrote: post #75

The bit about him spilling olive oil onto someone's dress then playing it off with a flirtatious joke seems very strange to me. Maybe it's just my upbringing but trying to pull off a joke like that in a tense situation seems very risky. I would be worried about coming off unserious, indifferent, and sleazy while also stoking an even angrier reaction from the person.

I think it was much more about anchoring the other person's response as quickly as possible and less about what was specifically being said. Sort of like speaking first in a negotiation to anchor your salary expectations. Even if the rate you propose is outlandish - doing so shifts the expected response curve in a way that can be useful.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#112

Post by thrwwXZTYE »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #34

Wow, I can’t get past the first couple of paragraphs. > I’ve tried so hard to learn how to connect with people. It’s all I ever wanted, for so long. Are there really people like this? HN is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but this is so far outside of my bubble that I just cannot relate. Some people feel like this, for real ?

You don't usually realize that's why you're the way you are until much later.

At first it might feel like "these people don't like me cause of how much better I am than them", or "these people don't like me, well fuck them, I don't need anybody".

People have all kinds of excuses they tell themselves to feel better about the needs they can't satisfy.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#113

Post by micromacrofoot »

lazide wrote: post #89
micromacrofoot wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is manipulation, you are doing things that impact how others view you in an effort to get them to do/feel/think something. Human interaction is various forms of manipulation. Many people hear music and can put together some moves without thinking about it, others have to deconstruct, learn, and rebuild... it's still dancing either way.

Manipulation vs influence is about intent and degree of peoples ability to reject it. If someone is influencing (actually) other folks can take it or leave it, and someone is willing to own it - because it’s something they actually believe. Manipulation is non optional, and if rejected causes attacks of various forms because people are doing it not because they believe it/it will help the ‘target’, but because they a…

The goal of influence is often manipulation... we see it all the time with "influencers" trying to illegally advertise to people by not disclosing sponsorships

People influencing others are trying to manipulate their emotions or thoughts into feeling a certain way about something...

We can look to the definitions themselves...

influence: the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something, or the effect itself.

manipulation: control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.

influence is literally there in the definition of manipulation

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#114

Post by ghurtado »

Aurornis wrote: post #47

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

If you read "how to win friends and influence people", you'll realize that these two things are inseparable.

It's pretty much in the title of the book already: it's an ironic title because "influence people" sounds like a shady goal to have, but the book is fully focused on self improvement without ulterior motives. It makes constant reference to authenticity, for instance.

Just because something can be used for nefarious purposes doesn't mean that it shouldn't be studied or learned.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#115

Post by collingreen »

pseidemann wrote: post #102
etangent wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. A lot of stuff "normal" people do is charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Except because they are not conscious about it, we give them a pass. One of the characteristics of autistic-spectrum individuals is that they must make a conscious effort to achieve goals that are achieved unconsciously by most of u…

Agreed. It's the playbook of social interaction written out. Nothing offensive about that.

Sometimes we find it distasteful to have things we're fully aware of explicitly spelled out. A trite quip here is "nobody wants to see how the sausage is made".

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#117

Post by ghurtado »

pseidemann wrote: post #102
etangent wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. A lot of stuff "normal" people do is charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Except because they are not conscious about it, we give them a pass. One of the characteristics of autistic-spectrum individuals is that they must make a conscious effort to achieve goals that are achieved unconsciously by most of u…

Agreed. It's the playbook of social interaction written out. Nothing offensive about that.

I would take it further and say that the more light we bring to this subject, the less it becomes the exclusive domain of snake oil salesmen and the "sales tips 101" type books, and the more inoculated the general public becomes to manipulation.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#118

Post by etangent »

collingreen wrote: post #115
pseidemann wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It's the playbook of social interaction written out. Nothing offensive about that.

Sometimes we find it distasteful to have things we're fully aware of explicitly spelled out. A trite quip here is "nobody wants to see how the sausage is made".

100% correct.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#119

Post by spicyusername »

etangent wrote: post #72
Aurornis wrote: post #47

This post wasn't what I was expecting from the "socially normal" title. While there is a lot of self-reflection and growth in this piece, a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Look at the first two subheadings: > 1: Connecting with people is about being a dazzling person > 2: Connecting with people is about playing their game The post felt like a rollercoa…

> a lot of the points felt more like learning how to charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. A lot of stuff "normal" people do is charm, manipulate, and game social interactions. Except because they are not conscious about it, we give them a pass. One of the characteristics of autistic-spectrum individuals is that they must make a conscious effort to achieve goals that are achieved unconsciously by most of u…

That's a pretty cynical take on what "normal" people are doing.

Re: My stages of learning to be a socially normal person

#120

Post by ghurtado »

koakuma-chan wrote: post #87
Aurornis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read that book because it was on so many generic book recommendations lists. It was less sleazy than I expected from the title. It actually had a lot of points about being genuine, being a good listener, showing respect to other people's opinions, admitting when you're wrong, being sincere, and so on. Decent advice, really. A side benefit of reading it is you learn how to spot when other people are insincerely tryi…

I read that book and I think it's terrible. Though the "God has not seen fit to distribute evenly the gift of intelligence" was funny and I can relate... but otherwise, I wouldn't want to live in a society where people are secretly hating you but "speaking ill of no man" a.k.a. "not criticizing." I liked the book Winning by Jack Welch more, which advocates for "candor," and is essentially the opposite of How to Win F…

> Winning by Jack Welch

Why do I get the impression that this book is very much in line with Charlie Sheen's personal philosophy?

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