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6B Miles Driven

tesla.com

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Re: 6B Miles Driven

#61

Post by paxys »

Tesla Autopilot/FSD is by all accounts an impressive piece of tech, and the stats about accident prevention are pretty convincing. The problem IMO is that Tesla & Musk have muddled the conversation so much over the years and made so many promises that it is impossible for the average consumer to know what is or isn't real at this point.

Do I need to have my hands on the steering wheel or is the car actually self driving? Can my Tesla drop me off where I need to be and go park itself? And then can I summon it when I'm done? Can I turn my Tesla into a taxi that picks up other people and earns me money? Is it even possible for a Tesla to drive itself unsupervised?

All of these have been promised over and over again for the past decade, and at this point it is impossible for anyone to set the right expectations for themselves.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#62

Post by jeffbee »

iaw wrote: post #43

7x fewer major and minor collisions!!!!* * Compared to the estimated U.S. average. They have a huge store of data on accidents in teslas per mile driven. Why don't they compare their actual data on accidents? Well, they would, but it probably is worse with FSD.

For the claims they are making the only peer is Waymo.

If they want to put themselves in a peer group that only has driver assistance systems, then the comparison should be to other similarly-priced and new vehicles, no U.S. average 12-year-old Corollas.

Anyway what is most amusing about this promotional material is that from the very first frame it inadvertently highlights how much worse it is than Waymo. The "Avoiding T-bones" scenario only seems like the car came out of nowhere because Tesla's camera system is so limited. Waymo would have seen it coming a mile away.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#63

Post by Workaccount2 »

ajross wrote: post #50
DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #7

I use it every single day and it is amazing! I have had my car for 6+ years now and it has only gotten better. Starting with "Navigate on Autopilot" when I originally got the car in 2019 which was pretty janky, it has only gotten better and better (with the rare regression in some cases). As of the last year or so, I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore!

Ditto. The volume of knee-jerk hatred these posts engender here really just fails in the face of the capabilities of the actual system. Like, it's OK to shout and scream about LIDAR and supervision and disengagement and all. But... it still drives itself! Really well.

The problem is that if it drives well for 30,000 miles (unsupervised) on residential roads before steam rolling little billy on his bike, you will get a deluge of people who swear the system is excellent.

But when you incorporate that tech into a fleet doing 100k residential miles a week with no supervisor, your mowing down 12 kids a month.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#64

Post by rconti »

cogman10 wrote: post #56
mschulkind wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic autopilot is unrelated to FSD these days. Every aspect is improved. Isn't there a trial you can try?

A 2018 vehicle is 2 major version behind on the FSD it can use. Tesla is on v14 and 2018 vehicles are stuck on v12. There's been rumors of a v14 lite coming out because tesla REALLY doesn't want to deal with the fact that they promised the 2018s could be fully autonomous.

Interesting, thanks. I haven't followed the hardware revisions on my car very closely; my father has a 2017 S, and I'm so used to thinking I have the "newer revision", since my MCU was newer than his, and he only recently upgraded it. I guess it should have been fairly obvious that a lot has changed in the past 7 years, but I've been hearing a nonstop trickle of autopilot/FSD news on these cars for so long that I guess I just assumed I had recent-enough support.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#65

Post by josephcsible »

paxys wrote: post #61

Tesla Autopilot/FSD is by all accounts an impressive piece of tech, and the stats about accident prevention are pretty convincing. The problem IMO is that Tesla & Musk have muddled the conversation so much over the years and made so many promises that it is impossible for the average consumer to know what is or isn't real at this point. Do I need to have my hands on the steering wheel or is the car actually self driv…

Those questions all have very clear answers.

> Do I need to have my hands on the steering wheel or is the car actually self driving?

You don't need to have your hands on the steering wheel, but you do need to be paying attention to the road.

> Can my Tesla drop me off where I need to be and go park itself?

Not yet.

> And then can I summon it when I'm done?

Yes.

> Can I turn my Tesla into a taxi that picks up other people and earns me money?

Not yet.

> Is it even possible for a Tesla to drive itself unsupervised?

They can (e.g., https://youtu.be/BO1XXRwp3mc), but it's not enabled for consumers yet.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#66

Post by brettgriffin »

kristofferR wrote: post #57
brettgriffin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So Tesla is charging $8000 to activate full safety software features in their vehicles? I think you're being obtuse, but to be clear, many car manufacturers offer trims don't include features that would qualify making the car 'safer' - blind spot detection, back up cameras (I think these are legally required now but were a premium feature for over a decade), parking assistance, crash detection, etc. I have a Tesla…

Well, I think that is also morally reprehensible in all other cases where it's also a matter of activating software safety features. Most of the things you mentioned aren't software locked behind a paywall, hopefully, you don't swipe your credit card and get those features added via OTA in minutes. If your car doesn't have back seat airbags it's hopefully not because you haven't paid for the back seat airbag in-app p…

Okay you are correct. If they are going to market FSD as a safety feature and it's just a software update, they need to include it by default and adjust their price.

I didn't realize how much they market it as a safety feature.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#67

Post by pragmatic »

Doesn't matter I and almost everyone in my circle won't touch a Tesla.

The cybertruck was a huge boondoggle and only doctors and true beleivers bought them but over time I don't see them in the parking lot when I see the doctors in the building hmmm.

Also Elon "skipping around like a dipshit" (Tim Waltz) and now claiming he's worth a trillion dollars.

By his own admission his identity is entertwined with Tesla's.

He poisened the brand for me and many others.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#68

Post by Workaccount2 »

Keyframe wrote: post #38
DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #7

I use it every single day and it is amazing! I have had my car for 6+ years now and it has only gotten better. Starting with "Navigate on Autopilot" when I originally got the car in 2019 which was pretty janky, it has only gotten better and better (with the rare regression in some cases). As of the last year or so, I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore!

I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore! Is that legal where you live?

On ford and I believe Chevy's systems you can let go of the wheel, however their systems only work on pre-mapped roads, and those roads are 99% interstates and highways.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#69

Post by armen0 »

mlmonkey wrote: post #41
armen0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discount is "up to 10%". I would call that a modest discount.

When I bought my Tesla, I had State Farm coverage for my existing (8 yo) car. State Farm quoted me a rate of $240/mo for switching insurance to the Tesla ( up from $130/mo ). This is in California, Bay Area. On a whim, I fired up the Tesla app and requested a quote for insurance through them. They quoted me $134/mo. I know, anecdata, size = 1. But I was surprised how low it was. I sent the coverage information to Sta…

That makes sense, and Tesla should be pricing lower for liability insurance if they have private data showing their cars are safer. But the "put your money where you mouth is" evidence would be if they offered a large discount for their own insureds that used FSD for most of their driving. I strongly believe FSD is safer than human drivers, but not sure about the magnitude. I think the FSD discount Tesla offers is a good clue, and I expect this discount to increase in the future.

Re: 6B Miles Driven

#70

Post by rconti »

jeffbee wrote: post #62
iaw wrote: post #43

7x fewer major and minor collisions!!!!* * Compared to the estimated U.S. average. They have a huge store of data on accidents in teslas per mile driven. Why don't they compare their actual data on accidents? Well, they would, but it probably is worse with FSD.

For the claims they are making the only peer is Waymo. If they want to put themselves in a peer group that only has driver assistance systems, then the comparison should be to other similarly-priced and new vehicles, no U.S. average 12-year-old Corollas. Anyway what is most amusing about this promotional material is that from the very first frame it inadvertently highlights how much worse it is than Waymo. The "Avoid…

I think the parent is suggesting that they could compare the FSD accident rate to human-driven Teslas that they also have data on.
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