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Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

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Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#101

Post by hc33 »

ImprovedSilence wrote: post #96
voxmatt wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to apologize for Apple's mess -- and it is a mess -- but your theory doesn't hold for me. Some places are genuinely fine: I'm in San Francisco and the maps really are pretty damn good (in SF, I'll actually use the word good). Of course, this is right in Apple's back yard, but the reports seem to indicate that most major U.S. cities are in good shape (mind you, I'm talking about maps & places, not flyov…

I don't have an iPhone, but isn't the new maps missing public transit data? Does that mean it won't route me through subways, etc, or doesn't even show bus stops and subway stations? And what about bike paths, Google has fantastic labeling of bike routes. As a city dweller, it's good to know they are "accurate", but, from what I've heard, they are missing many key components that would actually help tons in a city. N…

Depends on the location. Where I am both the old and new version lack this kind of data.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#103

Post by outside1234 »

001sky wrote: post #100
outside1234 wrote: post #93

No, Apple has a "liberal arts problem" in that they don't seem to have the hard core folks to do algorithms in the way that Google does. Apple has a lot of smart people, but can you really see them building a self driving car with tons of lasers spinning on it in order to have super accurate maps? I can't. But that's what Google did. Its also a "device centric problem": I'm always struck when talking with someone fro…

No, Apple has a "liberal arts problem" -- Seriously? This is "analysis"? A "a self driving car with tons of lasers spinning on it"? Learn before you speak. The noticeable problems are not subtle: clouds covering cities in the UK, buildings not being named on College Campus, etc. Stadia 0.5km out of place. They are obvious, silly, dealbreaker problems for Soccer Moms and Sociology FFS. Algo's are not going to solve th…

Sorry - I shouldn't have dumped on the liberal arts - maybe I should have used "left brain."

Algorithms are indeed solving a lot of these problems for Google. They are reading the street signs and shop signs for peet's sake!

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#104

Post by jlgreco »

hc33 wrote: post #101
ImprovedSilence wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an iPhone, but isn't the new maps missing public transit data? Does that mean it won't route me through subways, etc, or doesn't even show bus stops and subway stations? And what about bike paths, Google has fantastic labeling of bike routes. As a city dweller, it's good to know they are "accurate", but, from what I've heard, they are missing many key components that would actually help tons in a city. N…

Depends on the location. Where I am both the old and new version lack this kind of data.

Does the new version have it anywhere?

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#105

Post by ChuckMcM »

I've got a question on the maps fiasco, is it possible that Google never shared any usage data with Apple and somehow Apple thought nobody really used the App all that much? Seems like the click/search stream in maps is a tremendous asset for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that it comes with a unique undisguisable identifier with each request. Where you go an when you go there, both part of the query when you use maps. Its an advertiser's wet dream I would think.

Perhaps Scott realized that and decided to take it back from Google? I don't know. I do know it is pointless to try to second guess the executive staff of a company like Apple (or Google, or Groupon, or Zynga, Etc) even though it is fun.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#106

Post by nikcub »

robomartin wrote: post #50

Nah. I don't agree with the premise of this article. This was not one person's decision. Many actors had to be involved in the decision making process. For some reason Apple decided that kicking Google off the platform was worth the abuse they'd have to endure with Maps. Those who keep saying "Maps is great" need to leave an egocentric view and realize that there are millions of users all around the world with differ…

I can't imagine that the decision to drop Google early was made by the executive committee without getting a sign-off from Forstall that they would be ready with a new Maps app.

The ordering in making that fateful Google decision must have been first to decide if their own alternative was going to be close to ready. At that point somebody aggregated the data from the Maps team and made a forecast that said they would be.

Further, the failure of Maps has made iOS 6 itself a failure. You can tell from the marketing materials that the new Maps application was the headline feature of iOS 6. You can reverse engineer their thinking - we are dropping Google so this new release of the OS needs something special to hold it up. That 'something special' was the 3D view.

People are forgetting that Maps was marketed as a better application than Google Maps.

So that leaves a few points where it went wrong:

a) whoever provided the input to the group that decided to drop Google in saying that they would be ready

b) whoever decided to drop Google based on that info

c) whoever was responsible for delivering the finished Maps product

d) whoever was responsible for pinning the success of iOS 6 on Maps

e) whoever was responsible for testing Maps

f) whoever was responsible for raising user expectation by marketing Maps and iOS 6 as being 'better' and 'the best'

As head of iOS and a member of the exec committee, a lot of those paths lead back to Forstall.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#107

Post by mikeash »

TheGateKeeper wrote: post #24
timdorr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's had a similar number of issues, as compared to Maps. The difference is, it didn't replace or introduce a must-have feature in iOS. As a result, it's failures were something users are able to overlook because Siri is still, essentially, a toy feature. It's not key to the phone's operation; heck it's non-obvious that it's even a feature because no where on the interface indicates that it exists (it's a hidden long…

> Maps, however, is crucial to most people that use an iPhone Citation please. Nobody I know uses google maps, even when we travel (which is a lot).

You don't know anybody who uses a mapping app on their smartphone?

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#108

Post by mikeash »

mikeryan wrote: post #65
tlogan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it work for you? I stil have to meet a single person which actually can ask Siri something and Siri understands it and gives reasonable answer... I was under impression that it did not work because I'm ESL speaker: but it also does not work for people who speak english very well. Aha and there is class action lawsuit: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/class-action-lawsuit-file... Here is the quote: Ryan asked S…

Siri works fabulously for me. Here's how I use it, these use cases work consistently. 1. Call my wife at her office. 2. Text My Wife - I'll be home in 15 minutes. 3. Set a timer for 15 minutes. 4. Where's the closest Mc Donalds. Obviously I'm not looking for a magic speaking encyclopedia of knowledge, that being said my primary use case for Siri is in the car, and for 90% of what I need to do it works fine. BTW I jus…

Yep, works nicely for me too. Definitely a net positive in functionality on the phone, even if it's limited and not entirely reliable. Text messaging can be MUCH faster with it, especially if my hands are busy.

It's no AI and you'll have trouble if you treat it as such, but if you think of it as list of occasionally useful things that it can do, then it's pretty handy.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#109

Post by dastbe »

arrrg wrote: post #97
dastbe wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going by the wikipedia page, here's their definition they provide: "skeuomorphism is when a product imitates design elements /functionally necessary/ in the original product design, but that becomes ornamental in the new product design." So yes, it is about function. And also, the three things you mention are directly related to the function of the original objects. While these things are clearly used orname…

What? You seem to be very confused. Just give it up. You are wrong.

I think you misunderstood me. While it can be purely stylistic in the modern interpretation, the element replicated must have some functional purpose in the original. I do not think that you have to reimplement the functionality, that was just the example I used.

Your examples are skeumorphic because they use functional aspects of the original. "Find My Friends" is not skeumorphic because even if such a thing as "Find My Friends" existed in a previous form, the leather has nothing to do with its function.

If that sounds confusing to you, then I don't know what else to say. You're wrong?

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#110

Post by hatcravat »

jlgreco wrote: post #104
hc33 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the location. Where I am both the old and new version lack this kind of data.

Does the new version have it anywhere ?

In a word, "no." There are 3rd-party add-ons available from the App Store, but those only cover a subset of cities. Also, there don't seem to be routing plugins that can find transit directions across multiple transit agencies the way Google Maps can. So, for example, if you wanted to go from San Diego to Los Angeles, Apple maps couldn't tell you which buses to take on each end of the Amtrak ride.
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