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Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

tech.fortune.cnn.com

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Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#41

Post by shinratdr »

dastbe wrote: post #40
nilsbunger wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. Of course, Steve Jobs was also in favor of skeuomorphic design, so it's not like Forstall is the sole reason I "find my friends" in stitched leather.

That's not skeumorphism; it's a style choice. If I had to simulate ripping the top piece of paper off the notepad in notes to clear it, then that would be skeumorphic design.

Can we just make this the auto-reply comment whenever someone mentions skeuomorphism on the internet? I couldn't be more sick of the concept, except when I hear it constantly being used incorrectly.

Textures and styles aren't skeuomorphism, skeuomorphism is imitating real-world objects to provide a sense of familiarity in execution. Not a notes app that looks like a notepad, a notes app that FUNCTIONS like a notepad.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#42

Post by achompas »

Bud wrote: post #30
st0p wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsflash: A lot of people live in rural England, rural Ontario and Rural Holland. Besides, it can't find places like central station in Amsterdam (hardly rural). I don't care whether it's the app or the data, I don't care that it's working great in the bay area. What I do care about is that I had a perfectly working mapping solution, and now I have a second class thing that's just not working. I don't know about you…

True, and I granted that point already. However, a lot of people live in China , too, and it's being widely reported that Apple Maps is much better than Google Maps' data, in China. I'll just give one link, but a little googling around proves the point quite well: http://www.bangkokpost.com/tech/gadget/314283/apple-maps-bet... You didn't have a perfectly working solution before, btw; Google Maps still has a lot of er…

You didn't have a perfectly working solution before, btw; Google Maps still has a lot of errors.

I don't know if I'd make this comparison. The level of erroneous data in Apple Maps is just insane compared to Google Maps.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#43

Post by tlogan »

st0p wrote: post #26
Bud wrote: post #23

Who at Fortune deserves to be fired for its recent long string of incredibly idiotic articles about Apple, which have been panned here and elsewhere, then? I think the new Maps app is fantastic; the data accuracy leaves a bit to be desired, but I notice that those doing the most high-profile complaining point to errors in rural England, rural Ontario, etc. Here in the Bay Area, the data is working fine for me as well…

Newsflash: A lot of people live in rural England, rural Ontario and Rural Holland. Besides, it can't find places like central station in Amsterdam (hardly rural). I don't care whether it's the app or the data, I don't care that it's working great in the bay area. What I do care about is that I had a perfectly working mapping solution, and now I have a second class thing that's just not working. I don't know about you…

Working great in Bay Area? Who told you that?

I was under impression that this all similar to "antena gate" (kinda not big deal), but iOS maps are really really bad even in Bay Area.

EDIT: Here is an example: Search for "428 University Ave, Palo Alto": you will end up in Los Gatos.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#44

Post by tlogan »

stevenleeg wrote: post #5

Since when has Siri been "an embarrassment for Apple?"

Does it work for you? I stil have to meet a single person which actually can ask Siri something and Siri understands it and gives reasonable answer... I was under impression that it did not work because I'm ESL speaker: but it also does not work for people who speak english very well.

Aha and there is class action lawsuit: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/class-action-lawsuit-file...

Here is the quote:

   Ryan asked Siri, “What is a class action?”

   Siri told her, “I found this meeting.”

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#45

Post by awolf »

tlogan wrote: post #43
st0p wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Newsflash: A lot of people live in rural England, rural Ontario and Rural Holland. Besides, it can't find places like central station in Amsterdam (hardly rural). I don't care whether it's the app or the data, I don't care that it's working great in the bay area. What I do care about is that I had a perfectly working mapping solution, and now I have a second class thing that's just not working. I don't know about you…

Working great in Bay Area? Who told you that? I was under impression that this all similar to "antena gate" (kinda not big deal), but iOS maps are really really bad even in Bay Area. EDIT: Here is an example: Search for "428 University Ave, Palo Alto": you will end up in Los Gatos.

Not in my experience. It's fine here, at least in the city and in Berkeley. No problems aside from a few addresses needing me to add "sf" to them to avoid having them go to different cities (which sometimes also occurred with Google's map data).

I'm working on a routing/location based app right now. Out of curiosity could you give examples of what you mean by "really bad"?

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#46

Post by crikli »

Bud wrote: post #23

Who at Fortune deserves to be fired for its recent long string of incredibly idiotic articles about Apple, which have been panned here and elsewhere, then? I think the new Maps app is fantastic; the data accuracy leaves a bit to be desired, but I notice that those doing the most high-profile complaining point to errors in rural England, rural Ontario, etc. Here in the Bay Area, the data is working fine for me as well…

There are many other places in the world than the Bay area, and my god am I ever sick of seeing this myopic perspective represented on HN.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#48

Post by markmm »

Bud wrote: post #39
Jabbles wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defending the maps app as "a few months old" does not excuse the fact that it is not as good as the app it replaced. I'm sure it will improve in the future and may lead to improvements in all map apps as a result of increased competition. (I've never used Apple Maps.)

I didn't defend the maps app in that way; I was defending the immaturity of the map data . The app, as I said, is superior in my opinion to the Google Maps app. It zooms better, loads faster, looks better, has better layout, is prettier, and has turn-by-turn directions and 3D features that were absent in the Google Maps app. Remember that the app and its functionality is completely separate from the database it point…

Would you like a search engine that had great scrolling of results, fast loading and other cool features, but had missing, irrelevant and wrong results, or it worked only for a small subset of search terms like "Coffee in Bay Area".

Even Apples boss admits the app is a piece of shit, but morons like you still defend Apple products not matter how shitty they are.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#49

Post by nsns »

Bud wrote: post #39
Jabbles wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defending the maps app as "a few months old" does not excuse the fact that it is not as good as the app it replaced. I'm sure it will improve in the future and may lead to improvements in all map apps as a result of increased competition. (I've never used Apple Maps.)

I didn't defend the maps app in that way; I was defending the immaturity of the map data . The app, as I said, is superior in my opinion to the Google Maps app. It zooms better, loads faster, looks better, has better layout, is prettier, and has turn-by-turn directions and 3D features that were absent in the Google Maps app. Remember that the app and its functionality is completely separate from the database it point…

In a, probably unintended, way, I believe you've nailed the nail on its head: Apple excels at making aesthetic beautiful stuff, which looks good and feels good. But maps are about details and accuracy, otherwise they're useless.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#50

Post by robomartin »

Nah. I don't agree with the premise of this article. This was not one person's decision. Many actors had to be involved in the decision making process. For some reason Apple decided that kicking Google off the platform was worth the abuse they'd have to endure with Maps.

Those who keep saying "Maps is great" need to leave an egocentric view and realize that there are millions of users all around the world with different experiences.

According to the apology letter they serve about 500 million searches in one week. That means two billion searches per month. What does this mean in therms of customer experience?

http://www.mtonic.com/applemaps/

According to this either 60% of the locations either incorrect or missing altogether. I'll be generous and propose that Maps, world-wide, might have an average of 5% incorrect or missing locations. I don't know if this is too low or too high. It's just a number that I pulled out of my imagination in order to get a sense of proportion.

If only 5% of the data is wrong and we have two billion searches per month, that means 100 million bad searches per month. I'll let the reader guess as to how many users that affects. It certainly is in the millions.

If data errors are larger than that the situation is far worst. Again, I'll leave it up to the reader to guess as to how much user anger would trigger Apple to post an apology letter on the front page of their site.

If you live here in California, and, in particular, the Bay Area, please refrain from posting how "Maps is great and it is beautiful". You do not represent the experience of the vast majority of users who had almost no issues whatsoever with Google Maps.

Oh, yes, on the whole "Maps is beautiful" mantra. Who the f* cares? 3D view? Who the f* cares? First make them dead accurate, then add eye candy if it makes sense. Accuracy is far more important than bling when it comes to maps. Nobody is going to want to use a beautiful map that takes you to the wrong place. And 3D view. Really? Get it right first. Then play.

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