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Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

tech.fortune.cnn.com

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Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#81

Post by bitcartel »

Bud wrote: post #23

Who at Fortune deserves to be fired for its recent long string of incredibly idiotic articles about Apple, which have been panned here and elsewhere, then? I think the new Maps app is fantastic; the data accuracy leaves a bit to be desired, but I notice that those doing the most high-profile complaining point to errors in rural England, rural Ontario, etc. Here in the Bay Area, the data is working fine for me as well…

There is bad data in the Bay Area which some consider dangerous.

"Having a medical emergency? Then he might not want to use your iPhone five to search for an emergency room."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ketYUfQX9f4

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#82

Post by ralfd »

robomartin wrote: post #50

Nah. I don't agree with the premise of this article. This was not one person's decision. Many actors had to be involved in the decision making process. For some reason Apple decided that kicking Google off the platform was worth the abuse they'd have to endure with Maps. Those who keep saying "Maps is great" need to leave an egocentric view and realize that there are millions of users all around the world with differ…

> According to this either 60% of the locations either incorrect or missing altogether.

This test makes a bad comparison. See here:

http://vore.cc/post/32503374905/old-maps-vs-new-maps

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4591169

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#83

Post by glenra »

voxmatt wrote: post #77
CamperBob2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those who keep saying "Maps is great" need to leave an egocentric view and realize that there are millions of users all around the world with different experiences. I have a theory about these people -- they are the ones who never realized that you could search Maps for place names. If you search for street addresses, both Maps implementations perform OK. But the strength of Google's database is that you can type alm…

I'm not trying to apologize for Apple's mess -- and it is a mess -- but your theory doesn't hold for me. Some places are genuinely fine: I'm in San Francisco and the maps really are pretty damn good (in SF, I'll actually use the word good). Of course, this is right in Apple's back yard, but the reports seem to indicate that most major U.S. cities are in good shape (mind you, I'm talking about maps & places, not flyov…

I've heard from a few sources that "Maps is great" is actually accurate in China - it's supposedly much better than before. This blog has examples

http://anthonydrendel.com/

(Though I had less luck with Hong Kong. For instance, a search for "Big Buddha, Lantau Island, Hong Kong" and every likely English variant just finds the middle of Lantau Island, not the Buddha itself.)

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#84

Post by taligent »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #70
robomartin wrote: post #50

Nah. I don't agree with the premise of this article. This was not one person's decision. Many actors had to be involved in the decision making process. For some reason Apple decided that kicking Google off the platform was worth the abuse they'd have to endure with Maps. Those who keep saying "Maps is great" need to leave an egocentric view and realize that there are millions of users all around the world with differ…

Those who keep saying "Maps is great" need to leave an egocentric view and realize that there are millions of users all around the world with different experiences. I have a theory about these people -- they are the ones who never realized that you could search Maps for place names. If you search for street addresses, both Maps implementations perform OK. But the strength of Google's database is that you can type alm…

People need to understand that Apple is taking a long term view of this.

And we know this because they didn't setup relationships with any of the local data providers in each country. They just setup a single one with Yelp.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#85

Post by ralfd »

tlogan wrote: post #44
stevenleeg wrote: post #5

Since when has Siri been "an embarrassment for Apple?"

Does it work for you? I stil have to meet a single person which actually can ask Siri something and Siri understands it and gives reasonable answer... I was under impression that it did not work because I'm ESL speaker: but it also does not work for people who speak english very well. Aha and there is class action lawsuit: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/class-action-lawsuit-file... Here is the quote: Ryan asked S…

I am German and we didn't get all Siri features before iOS 6 (wolfram Alpha is still missing). But I tried it more in the last days and am really impressed! Even when I thought "oh, I mumbled the word, Siri won't get it" it was correctly recognized. I most use it as text to speech for SMS. And checking Fußball Bundesliga works good. (But only first league, no info available for second league.)

Since iOS 6 (or at east I never noticed before?) there is also an info button on the Siri screen which shows example querys/commands. This hels a lot!

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#86

Post by glenra »

TheGateKeeper wrote: post #24
timdorr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's had a similar number of issues, as compared to Maps. The difference is, it didn't replace or introduce a must-have feature in iOS. As a result, it's failures were something users are able to overlook because Siri is still, essentially, a toy feature. It's not key to the phone's operation; heck it's non-obvious that it's even a feature because no where on the interface indicates that it exists (it's a hidden long…

> Maps, however, is crucial to most people that use an iPhone Citation please. Nobody I know uses google maps, even when we travel (which is a lot).

FWIW, the first thing I did when I first bought an iPhone was move Maps onto the taskbar - replacing Mail - since I used Maps more than any other phone feature.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#87

Post by zmmmmm »

stevenleeg wrote: post #5

Since when has Siri been "an embarrassment for Apple?"

Might not be so much about functionality as that it was down an awful lot when it was launched. To the point where several people I know gave up relying on it - a feature that works less than 95% of the time quickly becomes 0% useful because the small fraction of failures is so frustrating and annoying that you avoid the whole thing (until recently this problem applied to speech recognition in general, but it's just finally getting over that hump, I think).

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#88

Post by dastbe »

arrrg wrote: post #55
shinratdr wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we just make this the auto-reply comment whenever someone mentions skeuomorphism on the internet? I couldn't be more sick of the concept, except when I hear it constantly being used incorrectly. Textures and styles aren't skeuomorphism, skeuomorphism is imitating real-world objects to provide a sense of familiarity in execution. Not a notes app that looks like a notepad, a notes app that FUNCTIONS like a notepad.

I think you two are wrong. Skeumorphism is about ornamental design, about design features that imitate something that was once necessary but is no more. It’s consequently all about style, not about function (at least when it comes to real-world objects). Wikipedia has examples like flame shaped lightbulbs, artificial film grain or spoke patterns on hubcaps. It seems that when it comes to software, skeumorphism can al…

If we're going by the wikipedia page, here's their definition they provide:

"skeuomorphism is when a product imitates design elements /functionally necessary/ in the original product design, but that becomes ornamental in the new product design."

So yes, it is about function.

And also, the three things you mention are directly related to the function of the original objects. While these things are clearly used ornamentally in modern devices, their existence/use was inherent in the design of the modern devices' predecessors.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#89

Post by Codhisattva »

robomartin wrote: post #50

Nah. I don't agree with the premise of this article. This was not one person's decision. Many actors had to be involved in the decision making process. For some reason Apple decided that kicking Google off the platform was worth the abuse they'd have to endure with Maps. Those who keep saying "Maps is great" need to leave an egocentric view and realize that there are millions of users all around the world with differ…

"Nah. I don't agree with the premise of this article. This was not one person's decision." Except in any corporation there is always one person who says "Ship it" and it does - regardless of anyone else's point of view. Was that Forstall? Most likely.

Re: Does Apple have a Scott Forstall problem?

#90

Post by nachteilig »

esolyt wrote: post #75
nachteilig wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really disagree with your views of the "ain't broke" area. For me and a lot of users it _was_ broken, because it had tiles that didn't zoom properly with a slow connection and didn't have turn by turn. Maps was falling behind, especially with the lack of turn by turn. Even my non-technical friends have been wondering when iOS would finally catch up with Android on that front.

>Even my non-technical friends have been wondering when iOS would finally catch up with Android on that front. And it did now?

For turn by turn? Sure, for the most part. Probably the only downside is that Apple's location database hasn't yet caugh up with Google's.
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