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Steam Frame

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Re: Steam Frame

#411

Post by ehnto »

daemonologist wrote: post #220
lynndotpy wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine there are a non-negligible amount of us here who looked at the Apple Vision Pro with interest, despite its $3,500+ price tag, only to find out it can't meaningfully be used as a standalone development device. Only question is if 2160px is enough.

I'm also very interested in this use case, however I suspect 2160 square is going to be great for gaming but insufficient for serious work. It's very comparable to the Quest 3 (lenses too), which is kind of on the level of a giant 1080p monitor.

I somewhat agree except that you can still make the screen however big you want, and the pixel density is the same across the new area.

Clarity has been totally fine for work reading text on, if I were inclined to code in VR that would totally work for me.

Re: Steam Frame

#412

Post by ehnto »

pixelpoet wrote: post #54
Night_Thastus wrote: post #25

The whole "foveated streaming" sounds absolutely fascinating. If they can actually pull off doing it accurately in real time , that would be incredible. I can't even imagine the technical work behind the scenes to make it all work. I'd really like to know what the experience is like of using it, both for games and something like video.

There's an awesome shader on shadertoy that illustrates just how extreme the fovea focus is: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/4dsXzM Linus the shrill/yappy poodle and his channel are less than worthless IMO.

That's quite harsh, and definitely not accurate.

Re: Steam Frame

#413

Post by nixpulvis »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #398
nixpulvis wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once lived in a place that had a bathroom with mirrors that faced each other. I think I convinced myself that not only is my attention to detail more concentrated at the center, but that my response time was also fastest there (can anyone confirm that?). So this gets me thinking. What would it feel like to correct for that effect? Could you use the same technique to essentially play the further parts early, so it a…

Peripheral vision is extremely good at spotting movement at low resolution and moving the eye to look at it. I don't know if it's faster, but it's a non-trivial part of the experience.

Yea, I've heard and noticed that as well (thought about adding a note about it to my original comment). But what I'm curious about is the timing. What I suspect is that peripherals are more sensitive to motion, but still lag slightly behind the center of focus. I'm not sure if it's dependent on how actively you are trying to focus. I'd love to learn more about this, but I didn't find anything when I looked online a bit.

Re: Steam Frame

#414

Post by ehnto »

nabakin wrote: post #223
potatolicious wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Verge reports similarly - can't tell foveated streaming. Seems like Valve really cracked the code with this one.

I don't think a lot of people realize how big of a deal this is. You used to have to choose between wireless and slow or wired and fast. Now you can have both wireless and fast. It's insane.

If you are lucky enough to have wired as an option anyway, especially in linux this has been shaky. But with Steam continuing to push into linux and VR I have no doubt this will change quickly.

Re: Steam Frame

#415

Post by ehnto »

ge0n111 wrote: post #198
cube2222 wrote: post #76

This is fantastic! A while ago I bought the Quest 3 and set it up with WiFi 6 for streaming games. It's a decent setup, but I only bought it cause I was tired of waiting for the "rumored new headset by Valve". And it seems everything on my wishlist is here: - foveated rendering based on eye tracking - this is excellent, and was I think only available in the Quest Pro until now - a dedicated wireless streaming dongle,…

I think they made the right choice with Snapdragon chip... it will drop in and work as a dev kit for all the android toolchains that support quest3, devs will easily port quest3 games etc... so it's basically a non-spyware quest3 which is what everyone wants at this point. Custom drivers on the wifi 6 dongle are going to likely offer the best wireless experience, which again is what everyone wants. I'm curious how me…

100%, a non-spyware Quest 3 is what I wanted. The Q3 is a fantastic headset, easily the best amalgamation of features at the right level of performance. Very pragmatic.

But Meta basically having access to my room in 3D, full audio, is not ideal. The very last company I want to invite into my home.

Re: Steam Frame

#416

Post by hinkley »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #351
hinkley wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons I put off getting corrective lenses for a long time and kept trying to use contacts despite how horrible they make my eyeballs feel, is that I have an extremely wide peripheral vision. I can see my fingers wiggle behind the plane defined by my shoulders, I will react to motion out there. Having my FoV dumbed down to 90º sounds like hell, especially in a game where we are looking for opponents. Play…

> I can see my fingers wiggle behind the plane defined by my shoulders I am a bit confused: you can see your shoulders while you are looking forward?

The normal human field of vision is about 190°, which mine is just about. If you don’t have a stoop that will catch the front edge of your shoulders. Fingers wiggling with your shoulders slightly overextended is just easier to see than a shoulder shrug.

It’s the amount of compute power that my brain allows for peripheral vision that’s the only unusual thing. But it makes video games feel claustrophobic to an unpleasant degree.

Re: Steam Frame

#417

Post by seba_dos1 »

reactordev wrote: post #311
Ciantic wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the, this link also crashes KDE Plasma, when opening this link with Google Chrome. I had to reboot two times, just clicking this frame link. Both times, first journalctl entry in the crash time is: [drm:__nv_drm_gem_nvkms_map [nvidia_drm]] ERROR [nvidia-drm] [GPU ID 0x00000100] Failed to map NvKmsKapiMemory 0x0000000070a84e8b Then KWIN dump etc. Reminding me to buy AMD next.

This is due to a video that has drm encoding and the browser trying to decode it. The drm blob contains the codec keys in our driver and the browser is supposed to negotiate this. It fails. At least on Nvidia for you. It fails for me on safari on iOS.

DRM in context of that log message is Direct Rendering Manager which is a Linux subsystem for handling GPUs; it's unrelated to Digital Rights/Restrictions Management and there are no DRM-encumbered videos on that page.

Re: Steam Frame

#418

Post by m463 »

bigiain wrote: post #339
modeless wrote: post #60

Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Foveated rendering is complicated to implement with current rendering APIs in a way that actually improves performance, but foveated streaming seems like a much easier win that applies to all content automatically. And the dedicated 6 GHz dongle should do a much better job at streaming than typical wifi routers. > Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a bro…

> Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Back when I was in Uni, so late 80s or early 90s, my dad was Project Manager on an Air Force project for a new F-111 flight simulator, when Australia upgraded the avionics on their F-111 fighter/bombers. The sim cockpit had a spherical dome screen and a pair of Silicon Graphics Reality Engines. One of them projected an image across the entire screen at a relatively low resol…

I remember there was a flight simulator project that had something like that, or even it was that.

it was called ESPRIT, which I believe was eye slaved programmed retinal insertion technique.

Re: Steam Frame

#419

Post by m463 »

zeroq wrote: post #393
bigiain wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Foveated streaming! That's a great idea. Back when I was in Uni, so late 80s or early 90s, my dad was Project Manager on an Air Force project for a new F-111 flight simulator, when Australia upgraded the avionics on their F-111 fighter/bombers. The sim cockpit had a spherical dome screen and a pair of Silicon Graphics Reality Engines. One of them projected an image across the entire screen at a relatively low resol…

I'll share a childhood story as well. Somewhere between '93 and '95 my father took me abroad to Germany and we visited a gaming venue. It was packed with typical arcade machines, games where you sit in a cart holding a pistol and you shoot things on the screen while cart was moving all over the place simulating bumpy ride, etc. But the highlight was a full 3D experience shooter. You got yourself into a tiny ring, 3D…

Maybe something like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuality_(product)

I think I played with the 1000CS or similar in a bar or arcade at some point in early 90's

Re: Steam Frame

#420

Post by dagmx »

anvuong wrote: post #372
dagmx wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foveated streaming is cool. FWIW the Vision Pro does that for their Mac virtual display as well, and it works really well to pump a lot more pixels through.

It's the same amount of pixels though, just with reduced bitrate for unfocused regions so you save time in encoding, transmitting, and decoding, essentially reducing latency. For foveated rendering, the amount of rendered pixels are actually reduced.

It’s the same number of pixels rendered but it lets you reduce the amount of data sent , thereby allowing you to send more pixels than you would have been able to otherwise
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