Time to start de-Appling • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#161

Post by kcartlidge » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 7:33 PM UTC

sedatk wrote: post #42

> You need to start that because, as we recently learned, at some point in the very near future Apple is withdrawing its Advanced Data Protection (ADP) feature from the UK altogether as a result of the Home Office TCN through the Investigatory Powers Act. So, a UK-only advice, and it strangely assumes that any other service in UK wouldn’t be bound by the same laws.

> So, a UK-only advice, and it strangely assumes that any other service in UK wouldn’t be bound by the same laws.

I suspect it's because whilst other services would be affected we only know about Apple currently and, thanks to iOS and Mac, a large percentage of the population will be using Apple by default for the services impacted. Only Google (Android) and Microsoft (Windows) really overlap in that regard.

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#162

Post by whstl » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 7:37 PM UTC

surgical_fire wrote: post #109

De-appling is easy. I just don't have anything from them. Apart from the work laptop, but that is a problem for my employer, not me. De-googling however is extremely hard. I have been slowly chipping away at it, but there are things I just have no decent option to (such as Waze and Android Auto). Android itself is another problem. I have high hopes for a Graphene device.

De-Googling is also extremely easy, I haven't had a Google account in 10 years, I use uBlock to block the ads, DuckDuckGo for search and a Youtube app that downloads from it instead of using the website.

Perhaps the only thing I use directly is Recaptcha.

The bigger problem is doing both.

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#163

Post by dan-robertson » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 7:39 PM UTC

ebbi wrote: post #157

Taking inspiration from the East India Company, Apple should colonize the UK and take over the government - the iGovernment, if you will. Citizens will regain their right to e2ee privacy, they will not have to deal with voting for mediocre politicians to lead them. Instead, Tim Cook will be their new leader, and every morning over the mandatory installation of HomePods in each home, citizens will be greeted with an e…

Either way we’re totally cooked

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#164

Post by graemep » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 7:40 PM UTC

encom wrote: post #107

graemep wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might come across as pedantic, but its important, "the UK" not "England". Confusing the two can upset people, especially those from the rest of the UK. Personally I do not think its just the UK and Denmark, its pretty much everywhere.

I specified England because I don't know what's going on in the rest of the Kingdom. Might be just as bad, I dunno.

The surveillance laws are all UK wide AFAIK. Some policy with regard to policing is devolved so there might be some small differences in how they are applied, but it is essentially just as bad.

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#165

Post by benoau » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 7:45 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #146

benoau wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but in this case most of the difficulties are artificially imposed by Apple, depending on how the tribunal responds to their alleged iCloud monopoly it could become as simple as choosing a compatible provider and putting your username/password in.

And as soon as you have "a provider" as a business entity, UK government can ban them from providing E2EE solutions to Apple users the same way they did ban Apple. Or the provider would just silently bend over hand hand all the keys to the UK govt.

They can't police every online server you can possibly rent, and they can't police them "all at once" like they can with the Google/Apple duopoly, all they can do is go after them one-by-one as they need access and as we see with 4chan, rejecting their assertions on jurisdiction is certainly an option.

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#166

Post by tristor » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 7:45 PM UTC

Maybe this was intentional by the author to annoy Mac users, but the word/line wrapping is broken on the latest Firefox on the latest macOS: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:144.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/144.0

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#167

Post by webdevver » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 7:51 PM UTC

iwontberude wrote: post #6

Wouldn’t it be easier to just move away from the UK? (I jest, but actually…)

nobody is going to stop you leaving the UK.

its entering another country that suddenly becomes a real problem, and ofcourse, if you're in the UK, the only country worth moving to at that point is the US with (as I understand) quite stringent immigration restrictions.

in reality, if the US were to open their doors to the UK, holy moly - this entire country would turn into Ukraine overnight, with nobody but pensioners left. which actually isn't in either governments interest: obviously not the UK, but infact, the UK presents a source of cheap labour for the US: read any hackernews thread concerning tech wages in the UK, the comments are hysterical/diabolical ("you make HOW much!?" - "A fast food worker makes more..." - etc.)

so, the current state of affairs is probably a good business arrangement for both parties involved, and aren't gonna change any time soon.

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#168

Post by sedatk » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 7:59 PM UTC

cmsj wrote: post #91

sedatk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? The title felt like there was a greater issue with Apple specifically. There wasn't. There was a greater issue with the new UK laws and cloud storage systems. I think people deserved a clarification before getting wound up about it before reading the article.

FYI, this is not about a law, this is about a Technical Capability Notice. This is a thing the UK government is able to issue to a specific company or companies, that require them to implement technical measures to enable data collection. This applies only to the company/ies that the notice is issued to. That could be one of them, some of them or all of them, but it's not really a law that automatically applies to al…

Everything a government does is about a law, but, even if only Apple had received this notice, why would it change the unfairness of singling out Apple? Did UK government issue this request as their final request of this kind? Did they forbid any further requests to be made? Did they single out Apple out of something specific to Apple Inc (or, say, United States) or did Apple happen to be just too visible?

Singling out Apple in the article's title sends the wrong message here. The author should have gone with something along the lines of "UK residents should stop using E2EE cloud services". Current title implies there might be a safe E2EE service in the UK. Heck, they even claim that in the article: "If you need an e2ee service try Proton" as if Proton is exempt from getting a notice from the UK. It's not.

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#169

Post by raincole » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 8:00 PM UTC

> > Otherwise, please make sure you de-Apple, de-Google, and de-American Stack yourself when you have time, clarity, and focus to do it. Start today.

So American companies are complying UK laws, and the conclusion is that UK citizens should "de-American"...?

Am I reading it wrong?

Re: Time to start de-Appling

#170

Post by jen20 » Mon, Nov 10, 2025, 8:01 PM UTC

thewebguyd wrote: post #142

benoau wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more likely to be a problem with Apple (and Google) because they have put themselves in a position where they are a gateway to everybody . There are multitudes of online storage providers outside of the UK's reach and jurisdiction but 0% of iPhone users back up to them because of technical limitations that inhibit iCloud competitors or any compatible storage solution.

> There are multitudes of online storage providers outside of the UK's reach and jurisdiction Not according to the UK, lately. The problem is still domestic. UK wants to exert this control over any service a UK citizens happens to use, whether they have a UK presence or not. Same with the ID/Age verification stuff. Moving away from Apple and Google probably is something they should do, but it's not going to be a solu…

To be clear, Apple and Google both have huge UK presence. I don't know the extent of Google, but Apple has offices with thousands of people working in them. Compliance with what the UK wants in this regard is not optional.

What the original poster does is completely misplace blame under the guise of "clever" writing - blame should be assigned squarely on the idiotic policies of the UK government.