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I Want You to Understand Chicago

aphyr.com

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Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#371

Post by cloverich »

mmooss wrote: post #364
tptacek wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this framing is very helpful. Whatever you believe about the people who pulled the lever for Trump, which included an unprecedented number of Latino and Black voters, they exist, and they're not persuaded by your disapproval. I think a really big problem we have on my side of the aisle is the belief that there's a celestial referee who will call offsides on the Republicans if we can just find the right…

The conservative message machine is determinative, and they would find something to effectively raise a storm about: immigration, inflation, etc. If Biden cut inflation, they would have demonized him regarding employment. Or just make something up - they can say anything at this point, and the Dems and others have made themselves helpless. They will always find something - Biden and Dems were being called pedophiles…

I don't think that's true. It was easy to call in Trumps first loss, i remember telling my dad: Economy goes bad, he'll be right back. Immigration may have mattered enough, and likewise Bidens cognitive decline. Lastly people didn't like Kamala in the primary, and they dont like candidates forced on them. That was many things stacked against a dem victory, and it was still close.

The dems main ongoing weakness as an extreme generalization, is choosing marginal hills to die on, and using hyperbole for everything.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#372

Post by cloverich »

ryandrake wrote: post #56
metalcrow wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your citation doesn't support your claim

- 74% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the Trump administration is doing the right amount to deport immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally. Another 12% say it’s doing too little and 13% say it’s doing too much. - Nearly nine-in-ten Republicans approve of sending additional U.S. troops to the border (88%) and increasing deportations (86%). More than six-in-ten strongly approve of these actions.…

Only that first stat aligns with what you are claiming. Wanting more border / deportations is fully inline with wanting to control immigration. Likewise cutting funds to states not supporting federal law isn't fringe. And asylum applications are clearly broken.

You can want all of those things and still be against eg ice agents raiding a school. It would be more accurate if it focused exclusively on the more egregious ICE activities.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#373

Post by ozozozd »

xdennis wrote: post #359
tky wrote: post #307

Accurate, if even a bit softer than how it really is. I never felt unsafe in my west side Chicago community until the Black Hawks started doing daily intimidation runs. Until they abducted community members who were out working one day, gone the next. I used to push a wagon with side pockets full of bubbles, snacks, and toys. Now there’s fewer toys to make room for gas masks for kids and adults. Chicago is a tough to…

[flagged]

What’s the accurate description when US citizens are _allegedly_ accidentally arrested?

How much freedom citizens must sacrifice for these laws to be enforced?

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#374

Post by jamtur01 »

scoofy wrote: post #340

When states choose nullification as a policy to ignore federal law, it’s an overt act of escalation. I don’t think these raids are good policy, but I won’t pretend that it’s happening in isolation. What they are doing, in large part, seems to be legal. Dressing detention up as kidnapping isn’t treating the issue in good faith.

You are familiar with the 4th Amendment? These acts are a clear violation of 4th Amendment rights, rights which extend to both citizens and non-citizens.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#375

Post by ozozozd »

lurk2 wrote: post #328
testing22321 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This post has been flagged and hidden, just demonstrating how much this country wants to pretend this isn't happening It’s so sad to see HN taking the side of violence and oppression with their “head in the sand” approach. I wonder how different the HN overlords would feel if their own families were being torn apart. This is Disgraceful and inexcusable. The shame. The only reason this is not currently flagged to ob…

[flagged]

OP mentions US citizens being detained. Commenter is wondering how other US citizens supporting such activities would feel if their family was detained similarly.

Unless you’re talking about citizens of another country that are in favor of these deportations, your comment is plainly illogical.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#376

Post by ozozozd »

lurk2 wrote: post #344
testing22321 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You couldn’t be more wrong. That is absolutely not my primary concern. It’s not a concern at all.

So you believe that America has a fundamental right to enforce its immigration laws, and that enforcement of those laws is permissible provided that such enforcement occurs within whatever bounds you deem to be humane, and your only objection to these activities is their real or potential impact on the civil rights of American citizens?

Pretty obviously. In fact, you defined a pretty good standard with the exception of the snark about what the OP deems humane - not deporting to an overcrowded prison in a 3rd country can’t be that hard to agree on.

All evidenced by the fact that higher deportation numbers during Obama created no uproar. You think it’s coz Obama was handsome or smtg?

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#377

Post by hexbin010 »

kasey_junk wrote: post #164
hexbin010 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, technically, it's likely because he has decided to block UK IPs (or similar). A form of protest I assume, assuming he runs no business in the UK and no other reason to think the UK Gov has any interest in policing an .com blog run by someone who doesn't live there nor hosts the website there. (I'm not against that form of protest per se, but let's be clear about who's doing the blocking)

His rationale is here https://aphyr.com/posts/395-geoblocking-multiple-localities-... His website links to bdsm (and hosts some very mild art). He has very real concerns and has talked to lawyers about them. I would not call it a protest rather a protective measure.

Thanks for the context. It still very much reads like activism however, rather than protecting themselves from a real and possible threat regarding aphyr.com.

I wonder if he has consulted with lawyers and authorities from all other 193 countries in the world regarding their laws?

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#378

Post by jonway »

tptacek wrote: post #315
keeda wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The election was fully determined by inflation. Biden made a reasonable (though incorrect) bet that full employment was more important than price stability. There is credible theory (shared by a very balanced labor economist I follow) that the immigration crisis helped tame the inflation crisis, besides boosting the economy enough for a soft landing: https://fortune.com/2024/04/12/immigration-inflation-economy... A…

Right, so, I'm not making a normative claim about the right about of immigration. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call myself an "open borders" person, but I'm very pro-immigration. Pro-immigration in the sense of believing we benefit from the mix of new Americans we get over our southern border, not in the weird doublespeak sense of appreciating skilled immigration from Europe. But from 2021-2023, we experienced…

I was looking at yearly immigration numbers and there is variation in the reporting, which is to be expected, but from what I can see, the census bureau sees a fairly stable number of immigrants (undocumented and otherwise) year over year from 2010-2025, and many sources agree, although CATO intstitute indicates a rather large increase (around %40) in this time period.

Can you please share some information as to why you feel the 21-3 numbers to be destabilizing?

The reason for increasing Venezuelan immigration is most likely the TPS act from 2019 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela_TPS_Act_of_2019 )

I am an internet person, but I am aware of your general career and hold some personal respect for you which is why I am asking you fairly directly for your information. Correcting my knowledge is truly my goal and to be very blunt, I am sensitive to the issues of immigration (all types). Personally, my main concern with my country's treatment of this issue lies in the preservation of due process for these people who are seeking to become my countrymen. It doesn't surprise me that they might desire freedom and self-determination, which is something that I readily empathize with. It is important to me to treat people fairly and with dignity in civil society and especially regarding our government, and this includes citizens who are troubled by it. As such I am very interested in realizing an accurate portrayal.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#379

Post by scoofy »

jamtur01 wrote: post #374
scoofy wrote: post #340

When states choose nullification as a policy to ignore federal law, it’s an overt act of escalation. I don’t think these raids are good policy, but I won’t pretend that it’s happening in isolation. What they are doing, in large part, seems to be legal. Dressing detention up as kidnapping isn’t treating the issue in good faith.

You are familiar with the 4th Amendment? These acts are a clear violation of 4th Amendment rights, rights which extend to both citizens and non-citizens.

>When do ICE agents need a warrant to arrest immigrants?

>A judicial warrant is a legal order authorizing law enforcement’s search, seizure or arrest on private property. Judicial warrants are signed by a judge.

>Immigration agents also use administrative warrants, which carry lower legal weight. Administrative warrants are signed by federal agents such as immigration judges or officers. These warrants allow ICE agents to arrest someone in public places. However, they don’t give officers the right to enter private property.

>Although ICE agents are required to have a judicial warrant to enter a person’s home, they are not required to have a judicial warrant to arrest someone in public spaces, such as the immigration court building.

>"Lander is incorrect that a judicial warrant is required," Aaron Reichlin-Melnick, a senior fellow at the American Immigration Council, an immigrant-rights advocacy group, said on X.

>An administrative warrant isn’t always required to arrest someone in public. According to immigration law, agents can arrest an immigrant without a warrant if they have "reason to believe" the immigrant is in the U.S. without authorization and "is likely to escape before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest."

https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/jun/18/Brad-Lander-I...

This goes on:

>Can ICE agents arrest U.S. citizens?

>ICE agents generally can’t arrest U.S. citizens, because they aren’t committing a civil immigration violation. However, an agent may arrest a U.S. citizen on the grounds that they believe the person is in the U.S. illegally. The person would be released after showing proof of citizenship.

>However, Lander wasn’t arrested on immigration grounds, said Alexandra Lopez, a Chicago-based immigration attorney. The agent accused Lander of obstruction.

>"In this scenario they are acting as federal law enforcement agents who are arresting a U.S. citizen on criminal, not immigration, grounds," Lopez said. "ICE claims they were detaining Comptroller Lander in their capacity as federal law enforcement agents, not immigration enforcement agents."

Immigration law is complicated.

I'm not some right-wing nutter. I'm just a lefty that thinks we're definitely shooting ourselves in the foot by really misunderstanding what's actually happening. Nullification of immigration laws is, in fact, a right that states can exercise, but it's overt nullification is absolutely an escalation that undermines public trust because it force the feds to send enforcement officers into a hostile area.

We should fight to win the immigration debate with persuasion, in the legislature. We need to have the law on our side, and we need to have the populace on our side. Right now, we have neither. We're operating a nullification campaign, and unlike the successes of legalizing marijuana, we're losing this one. If we want to keep doing this, that's fine, but I don't want people out there pretending that lawful detentions are kidnappings. It's dumb, it's a bad look, and it kind of doesn't care about the complexities of the predicament we're in.

This is a forum for nerds. I expect people to actually be able to google this shit.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#380

Post by ozozozd »

chinupbuttercup wrote: post #323

I don't agree with all the methods used by ICE in Chicago, but I understand the problem they are trying to fix. Most of the comments on HN don't seem to think there is a problem, but that could largely be due to our limited memories and selective hearing. Back in 2022, the Biden administration was flying immigrant family and children secretly at night to places like Chicago. I have a friend who worked at an airlines…

I genuinely don’t follow.

Had the immigrants not been moved to Chicago proper enforcement would be easier? Something about Chicago terrain or climate requires the enforcement to be this way?

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