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IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

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Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#81

Post by Ajedi32 »

vollbrecht wrote: post #59
bluGill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter is now a standard not just a common spec. Everyone should demand all new smart home devices support matter. (it is okay if you use Zigbee or some other alternative to control it today but you should still demand matter for the day you switch - that day should come) In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hi…

A standard where you have to pay to play. Cheapest option is 3000$ per product and 500$ annual.

I wasn't aware of that. One other concern I have with Matter is that, if I understand correctly, Thread+Matter devices get their own IP address with internet access, whereas with Zigbee all of that has to be controlled by the gateway.

In theory that's a win for Matter, but I'm a little concerned about the security and enshitification problems that might cause. I kinda like the idea that I can buy a cheap IoT lock off Temu and as long as my Zigbee gateway is secure there's very little chance of that decision coming back to bite me...

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#82

Post by davidmurdoch »

exabrial wrote: post #72

I'm not investing in any smart home products unless: * I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network * I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15 If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.

Elegrp switches can be used offline. They need to be provisioned online first though, unless you flash with esphome (which can't currently be done wirelessly), but then you'll have to write a custom integration config.

Pros: very inexpensive, and they look great. Cons: WiFi/ble only, they feel cheap, dimmers don't support a "transition" comment, so you cant dim over time easily.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#83

Post by insane_dreamer »

carderne wrote: post #10

What “hub” thing do I need to use this? I use an iPhone but really just want to use some physical remote switches. I currently use Home Assistant but want to shift to something more “mass market” as I’m bored of being family tech support.

Can't Matter devices connect directly to Apple HomeKit? So if you have a HomePod (or even a MiniPod though I'm not sure) it should connect all these Ikea devices too.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#84

Post by tokioyoyo »

kristofferR wrote: post #44
tokioyoyo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy — you’re not their target demographics. Almost all of my friends have some sort of “smart” devices, and I’ve helped personally to install them when things were a bit annoying (Spotify not syncing, dhcp not working properly and etc.). Absolutely not a single person cared about the “privacy and security” issue.

That's just untrue, these are the exact products a privacy conscious demographic would/should buy.

Of course there are. IKEA just doesn’t care about them because the market is so small it’s just not worth it.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#85

Post by culebron21 »

exabrial wrote: post #72

I'm not investing in any smart home products unless: * I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network * I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15 If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.

I have accumulated so much smart-stuff fatigue, I can't stand anything branded as "smart". This means, as you point out, 1) any outage in the chain between me and the vendor's app shuts everything down for me, 2) stuff behaves inconsistently all the time. (e.g. Bluetooth speakers with a smartphone/tablet player app -- every other time something goes wrong: the app frozen completely because search autocomplete lost packets; you can't find the damn playlist buried in a sea of features; another your device wakes up and steals the bluetooth speakers.)

Regarding the electric switches, I was fond of bypass switches (where you can turn on/off by flipping any of the switches connected to a lamp) and made a lot of them in my apartments. Turned out not all of them were needed. I didn't need much control at home, e.g. I don't need to control the lighting above the kitchen desk when I'm not in front of it.

Wifi switches allow a lot of freedom in positioning and re-positioning them, but they escalate everything to the unreliable realm of IP/internet devices. I'd probably vote for a controller on a lamp, and switches not actually inerrupting 230V~, but be connected with a thin and flat 12V= bus, and just signalling, and hence be easy to put under wallpapers. (5V= would be hard to send further than 3 metres.)

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#86

Post by devttyeu »

james-bcn wrote: post #33
embedding-shape wrote: post #4

Does this mean they're abandoning Zigbee compatibility? In my experience, Ikea was making the most reliable Zigbee devices considering the price (as someone who just uses Zigbee and no Ikea hubs, just HA+Zigbee), and would be a shame to lose that, but maybe it's a clear sign I should investigate starting to use Matter more instead?

Isn't Matter derived from Zigbee?

Both use 802.15.4 but iiuc zigbee does that with some incompatibilities.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#87

Post by Loic »

exabrial wrote: post #72

I'm not investing in any smart home products unless: * I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network * I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15 If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.

Currently renovating our house, everything will be KNX based. Offline, no servers needed (even within the house) but nice for visualization, standard, 500+ vendors of compatible hardware. Highly recommended.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#88

Post by ericd »

scosman wrote: post #63
moshib wrote: post #3

IKEA's Zigbee devices have been some of the more stable smart devices I owned. I wasn't running their hub, opting to run with deCONZ in the past and moving to Zigbee2MQTT in recent years. I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.

Word on reddit is they discontinued the blinds due to reliability problems. I have 3 and 1 failed so makes sense to me. They want to bring them back, but it's a complete redesign, not just normal planned product lifecycle iteration.

I hope they make them quieter this time!

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#89

Post by devttyeu »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #71
bluGill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter is now a standard not just a common spec. Everyone should demand all new smart home devices support matter. (it is okay if you use Zigbee or some other alternative to control it today but you should still demand matter for the day you switch - that day should come) In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hi…

Definitely will not be buying Matter stuff. Way too complicated, doesn't address the real problems in smarthome technology. I usually take my smart devices with me when I move. It's a pretty expensive thing to leave behind for a new owner that probably won't use it anyways. If someone offered me extra to leave them I might and then I'd also leave a manual.

It does address quite a few reliability issues - you can have multiple gateways into the thread network so it is actually highly available.

It’s definitely complicated, but it’s a kind of usb-c of smart home - you only worry about the complex part when building a product. Just wish there was a better device reset/portability story.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#90

Post by close04 »

darkwater wrote: post #17
close04 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zigbee is the wireless network protocol. The equivalent to it on the Matter side is called Thread, also based on Zigbee from what I read (was developed by Connectivity Standards Alliance, formerly known as Zigbee Alliance). Zigbee and Thread operate at OSI L1-3, Matter is L3/4-7. Matter is a communication protocol adopted by a lot of manufacturers but I think practically for the buyer the real benefit is that you no…

You never needed a bucket of hubs with things like zigbee2mqtt or the Zigbee implementation in Home Assistant. That's enough a proof that the issue was not in the protocol. Actualyl you can also pair between them different vendors products (i.e. Ikea remote with Philips bulbs)

> You never needed a bucket of hubs with things like zigbee2mqtt or the Zigbee implementation in Home Assistant

That works, I am doing the same. But the average consumers don't want to be bothered to run HA, they want things to work out of the box with minimal fuss setting up or operating. This usually meant having the Philips hub, the IKEA hub, the Samsung hub, etc.

> That's enough a proof that the issue was not in the protocol

For sure not in the Zigbee protocol, which is standard. The differences are in the logical communication protocol, at application level. Each manufacturer wanted to fully control their product, with no alignment with other manufacturers, which made devices and hubs mostly incompatible outside of each ecosystem. This is what Matter is looking to fix. One controller coordinating over a standard protocol a bunch of IPv6 devices connected via WiFi, Ethernet, or Thread.

And best part, Matter certification means the devices have to be able to operate locally. No more "cloud polling" [0] type integrations even for basic functions.

[0] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th...

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