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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#351

Post by wartywhoa23 »

ezoe wrote: post #69
adeptima wrote: post #7

10+ years in Japan. The message here is much deeper from my perspective. “Let’s jump on the call” is not the solution. The guy was stripped off of his face. I love Japan for being human. Small business bar or restaurant with 3 tables. Not everything should be streamlined for a quick call solution… the process was pushed on his head. Google nemawashi decision making process

Exactly, this is just a 面子(face) problem. Also, his demanding of not using his work for AI training is nonsense. Because entire articles, this one included is published under a Creative Commons license. Didn't he agree on that? Mozilla must reject his further contribution because he stated he don't understand the term of Creative Commons license. His wish granted I guess.

Creative Commons License was created without any AI in mind.

And

> Licensees may copy, distribute, display, perform and make derivative works and remixes based on it only if they GIVE THE AUTHOR or licensor THE CREDITS

Re: End of Japanese community

#352

Post by gyomu »

apexalpha wrote: post #345
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

As someone from the Netherlands I read absolutely 0 condescending or patronising behaviour in this. It just looks like someone trying to get in contact and help out. I could've written this myself, genuinely trying to help.

"I'm sorry for how you feel" is widely accepted as a non-apology in English. Sincere apologies show awareness of how one's actions led to the situation that would require the apology.

Re: End of Japanese community

#353

Post by tsimionescu »

apexalpha wrote: post #345
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

As someone from the Netherlands I read absolutely 0 condescending or patronising behaviour in this. It just looks like someone trying to get in contact and help out. I could've written this myself, genuinely trying to help.

If this were some small bug report, even from someone pretty ticked off, I'd agree.

But this is a response to someone who has just announced that they are quitting an organization they had spent 20 years of their life volunteering for, because of the disrespect they have felt from the org. This is not a "hop on a call" moment. This is a "please accept to meet so I can apologize in person, and see if we can repair this" moment, preferably after acknowledging the disrespect.

Re: End of Japanese community

#354

Post by pegasus »

apexalpha wrote: post #345
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

As someone from the Netherlands I read absolutely 0 condescending or patronising behaviour in this. It just looks like someone trying to get in contact and help out. I could've written this myself, genuinely trying to help.

Given that the written complaint already had a list of ways Mozilla had stepped on the toes of those volunteers, expressing regret about their feelings without at least acknowledging that Mozilla's actions might have been rash is very condescending indeed. These volunteers are adding value to M's product for free and they are very angry and threatening to leave and this is your response? Basically saying "I'm sorry you're being such big babies, do you want some tissues?"...

Re: End of Japanese community

#356

Post by apexalpha »

gyomu wrote: post #352
apexalpha wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from the Netherlands I read absolutely 0 condescending or patronising behaviour in this. It just looks like someone trying to get in contact and help out. I could've written this myself, genuinely trying to help.

"I'm sorry for how you feel" is widely accepted as a non-apology in English. Sincere apologies show awareness of how one's actions led to the situation that would require the apology.

That's great but we're not all native English speakers. And "I'm sorry for you" seems like a hollow phrase to a Dutch person but this is used all the time in English.

It's like how you say "How are you" when you really don't care but it's just how you start a conversation.

Re: End of Japanese community

#357

Post by yason »

cubefox wrote: post #313
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

I don't get it. It's not the best possible phrasing, but people who find this sounds "horribly condescending" are excessively sensitive in my opinion. Like a grown man complaining about being "horribly hurt" when a careless passer-by bumped into him.

I'm sorry you don't get it and that you feel they're excessively sensitive. On the behalf of the HN community would you like to share with us more about how you feel about it so that we can better understand your position. I'm sure we can help you find the best possible phrasing to better express the excess of said sensitivity. We're sorry you've had to encounter such a wording and attitude on our forum.

Re: End of Japanese community

#358

Post by detaro »

atoav wrote: post #342
detaro wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) don't apologize for the other persons feelings, but for your actions that lead to it b) don't look like you are trying to take the conversation out of the community space it's happening in and/or hiding details by going to a private call (you can offer a call, but it shouldn't be the expectation) c) Acknowledge the concrete complaints made. Are you truly "struggling to understand" what someone means when they comp…

One point I'd like to add as someone who has worked in IT support for years: Don't answer when you haven't done your homework. Either you check for yourself if what they claim has happened happened and acknowledge the fuckup or you just trust them as go on "if this is true and we have no reason not to trust you, it should never have happened". But not understanding? The description of the incident was pretty clear. M…

Or answer being clear about that if you feel like you need to respond now. Acknowledge there is a problem, say you'll have to look into the details before you can say more, come back with specific questions if you need answers.

Re: End of Japanese community

#359

Post by apexalpha »

tsimionescu wrote: post #353
apexalpha wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from the Netherlands I read absolutely 0 condescending or patronising behaviour in this. It just looks like someone trying to get in contact and help out. I could've written this myself, genuinely trying to help.

If this were some small bug report, even from someone pretty ticked off, I'd agree. But this is a response to someone who has just announced that they are quitting an organization they had spent 20 years of their life volunteering for, because of the disrespect they have felt from the org. This is not a "hop on a call" moment. This is a "please accept to meet so I can apologize in person, and see if we can repair thi…

I don't know the original author but as a non-native speaker I guess I miss the cultural connotation surrounding "hop on a call".

Doesn't seem weird to me, seems apt to ask to escalate the method of communication when a serious issue like this arises.

Would you consider it more respectful to deal with this issue just by posting in the thread?

Re: End of Japanese community

#360

Post by int_19h »

Etheryte wrote: post #293
numpad0 wrote: post #147

Isn't it fascinating that despite `while true; do claude --yolo` over a weekend being all it takes to port some project across platforms, LLMs completely fall apart when it comes to speaking grammatical and natural Japanese? Free tier Gemini CLI literally writes Android app for me by just endlessly wondering in English. AGI's here. And it struggles with Japanese. How!?

To be fair, in my experience LLM-s struggle to some extent with nearly every language that isn't English. Compared to many others, English is a very simple language and it has the largest body of material to learn from to boot. The more nuanced a language, the more LLM-s spout garbage.

They do pretty good Russian, even to the point of very elaborate speech styles etc.
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