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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#41

Post by crazygringo »

pseudalopex wrote: post #6
ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

Some grievances were vague. It doesn't follow our translation guidelines. What specific guidelines did it not follow? It doesn't respect current localization for Japanese users, so they were lost. What was not localized? Mozilla's response should not be limited to clarifying these grievances. But it could have been all the staff member who responded could do.

I don't know why you're being downvoted, you're exactly right.

The person replying is probably not an expert in this. But they want to get more details so they can figure out how to get it to the right people with more information.

This is how it's supposed to work.

Re: End of Japanese community

#42

Post by gyomu »

daemoens wrote: post #30
gyomu wrote: post #18

As a multilingual/multicultural human it’s been pretty weird witnessing what AI translation has been doing to regional languages & cultures on the internet in the last few years. Sure we had machine translation before, but it was still a little off. Now the latest language models get us 99.9% there, so they are judged good enough to deploy at scale. What results is a weird twilight zone where everything is in your la…

Do you have any examples of American expressions young generations are using in French?

The ones that are easiest to point to are turns of phrase like “living your best life”, “that feeling when you…”, etc.

Re: End of Japanese community

#43

Post by stonogo »

thwarted wrote: post #21

What is the logic behind adding machine translation for content that already had a seemingly robust, enthusiastic, and motivated (volunteer?) community maintaining the translations? The "saves money" rationale to deploy LLM/MT automation doesn't make sense when its volunteers are contributing because they want to. This is kind of community and participation destruction wrought by the introduction of LLMs/MT has a ser…

Mozilla has invested heavily in this technology, and whatever project manager is running it needs more checkboxes in the results column of their next request for a raise. In other words, "business alignment."

Re: End of Japanese community

#44

Post by jogu »

crazygringo wrote: post #31
jahsome wrote: post #10

I'm not really able to understand the finer details but I think I picked up enough to get the broad strokes. Really though, all I needed to see was the phrase "jump on a quick call" to form an irrationally strong opinion. That phrase instantly warms my entire body with rage.

Why? It seems like someone who has no awareness of the problem, who wants to learn more about the problem, and the fastest way for both parties is over the phone ASAP rather than through a bunch of emails. When software goes wrong, you need as much information as possible to figure it how to fix it.

From my read, the software didn't go wrong. It did exactly what they intended it to -- machine translations replaced handwritten translations provided by community volunteers. Seems like a pretty big middle finger to those volunteers.

The lead realized that Mozilla doesn't care about their opinion (they did this without discussing with them) nor do they care about the work they were doing (by replacing their work with machine translations). A "quick call" doesn't solve this.

Re: End of Japanese community

#45

Post by Brian_K_White »

thwarted wrote: post #21

What is the logic behind adding machine translation for content that already had a seemingly robust, enthusiastic, and motivated (volunteer?) community maintaining the translations? The "saves money" rationale to deploy LLM/MT automation doesn't make sense when its volunteers are contributing because they want to. This is kind of community and participation destruction wrought by the introduction of LLMs/MT has a ser…

I bet it's nothing more than they prefer a machine they can just use and get no lip, rather than have to deal with humans they have to treat like humans and ask nicely and meet half way on countless issues and pretend to care about etc.

Re: End of Japanese community

#46

Post by jffry »

chao- wrote: post #26
jahsome wrote: post #10

I'm not really able to understand the finer details but I think I picked up enough to get the broad strokes. Really though, all I needed to see was the phrase "jump on a quick call" to form an irrationally strong opinion. That phrase instantly warms my entire body with rage.

I am fascinated by the nuanced opinions people have about word choice. What phrase would you use to ask someone to discuss a matter, but which you feel would be more appropriate for this kind of situation?

"I'm sorry for how you feel about it" isn't exactly an empathetic opening stance

Re: End of Japanese community

#47

Post by Arnt »

TheJoeMan wrote: post #33
alwa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did as you suggested with respect to “nemawashi.” I read about that and “ringi,” and I’m glad I did. Even to get just the gist of what I’m sure is a thin interpretation: that nemawashi refers to a “laying-the-groundwork” process of circulating a proposal between peer-level counterparts, before formalizing it and proposing to act on it. Much less crashing in with it in the form of a “SumoBot,” as Mozilla seems to ha…

That reminds me of internet RFC’s… like by the time they are formally published, no the author is not interested in your “comment”.

I've written a few RFCs.

For any RFC, there will be a "comment" after publication from someone who did not take earlier comments seriously enough to read them.

Re: End of Japanese community

#49

Post by crazygringo »

thwarted wrote: post #21

What is the logic behind adding machine translation for content that already had a seemingly robust, enthusiastic, and motivated (volunteer?) community maintaining the translations? The "saves money" rationale to deploy LLM/MT automation doesn't make sense when its volunteers are contributing because they want to. This is kind of community and participation destruction wrought by the introduction of LLMs/MT has a ser…

There's probably a bunch of untranslated or badly translated content worldwide, so this was rolled out to help with that, without realizing it would overwrite higher-quality translation.

It probably made a lot of sense in certain contexts, and certain side effects weren't predicted, or it just has bugs that need fixing.

Presumably nothing malicious or stupid. But just ironing out the kinks.

Re: End of Japanese community

#50

Post by krick »

ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

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