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I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

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Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#151

Post by TiredOfLife »

tguvot wrote: post #135
russdill wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like it would be trivial for the machine to pump water in, turn on the heating element, and wait until it reaches optimum temperature before beginning the cycle.

This is what most (all?) of machines do. Heat water when they need hot water

In the video he mentions that the machines heat for a set time and not for a target temperature. So as majority of machines (in US market) are meant for hot water input. Then if you feed cold water they don't heat it enough

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#152

Post by emtel »

orev wrote: post #107
emtel wrote: post #80

Pods work great for me, and I love not having crumbs of powder under the sink, or a bottle of liquid detergent with encrusted drips down the side. It's just gross. They are more expensive, but I buy them on sale at Costco for about $16/100, so at $0.16 per load I really don't care if powdered detergent is only $0.03 per load or whatever. There is clearly a revealed preference for pods among consumers for these things…

With pods you can’t add some detergent to the prewash while adding the rest to the main wash cycle. That’s the thing that makes one of the biggest differences.

Yes but my dishes come out spotless with pods, so I don't need to change anything to make them cleaner.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#153

Post by pavon »

jeffbee wrote: post #74

I was a long-time adherent of powder for all the reasons in the video. I used the Seventh Generation powder that is widely available, or once was. One day I couldn't find it, so I got Cascade Free & Clear Pods. I was completely blown away by how much better the pods work. And they work faster, too, because my dishwasher cycles are based on water clarity and they end sooner if the detergent is working faster. So I per…

Same here. Tried using just power, and his other advice and it didn't work out. Didn't clean as well and many dishes (especially plastic) ended up with a white film despite trying multiple brands of powder and dish dry solution.

I wonder if part of it is differences in water hardness and such.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#154

Post by emtel »

russdill wrote: post #132
apsurd wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 1.5 minutes in and I already learned to purge cold water from the pipes before running the dishwasher. Assuming this is evidence based and true, I mean come on! Is it really so alarming to see someone deep dive hard and do the work to mass educate the public?

It seems like it would be trivial for the machine to pump water in, turn on the heating element, and wait until it reaches optimum temperature before beginning the cycle.

My understanding is that energy efficiency requirements prevent this. Dishwashers have a fixed energy budget they are allowed to expend, which may not be enough to heat cold tap water up to the optimal cleaning temp.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#155

Post by TiredOfLife »

Blackthorn wrote: post #113
jeffbee wrote: post #74

I was a long-time adherent of powder for all the reasons in the video. I used the Seventh Generation powder that is widely available, or once was. One day I couldn't find it, so I got Cascade Free & Clear Pods. I was completely blown away by how much better the pods work. And they work faster, too, because my dishwasher cycles are based on water clarity and they end sooner if the detergent is working faster. So I per…

We attempted an experiment in our own dishwasher after the video, trying Cascade Platinum boxed powder (only stuff available here) and Cascade Platinum Plus pods (which we had been using before). The experiment showed that, for our dishwasher and our water, the pods just worked significantly better. The main difference was in the silverware (tiny bits would occasionally be left with the powder). A couple of months in…

His tests found that a brand that makes both powder and pods makes the powder substantially worse.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#156

Post by jeffbee »

pavon wrote: post #153
jeffbee wrote: post #74

I was a long-time adherent of powder for all the reasons in the video. I used the Seventh Generation powder that is widely available, or once was. One day I couldn't find it, so I got Cascade Free & Clear Pods. I was completely blown away by how much better the pods work. And they work faster, too, because my dishwasher cycles are based on water clarity and they end sooner if the detergent is working faster. So I per…

Same here. Tried using just power, and his other advice and it didn't work out. Didn't clean as well and many dishes (especially plastic) ended up with a white film despite trying multiple brands of powder and dish dry solution. I wonder if part of it is differences in water hardness and such.

I think water chemistry is under-appreciated, and a lot of people also seem to believe that the rinse agent does nothing, but it does.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#157

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

tguvot wrote: post #134
a_wild_dandan wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His specific thesis is that pods fundamentally clean worse than powder because they're inherently single-stage releases of detergent in machines designed for two-stage releases. Despite this, he still explicitly says that pods have their uses. So I'm unclear on how his goal is "proving that everyone is wrong." Did we watch different videos?

Is there list of machines that designed for two stage releases?

More interesting would be a list of machines not designed for two-stage release. They probably exist, but it'll be a much smaller list.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#158

Post by redundantly »

arjie wrote: post #130

I love that there are people who will go into this much detail on stuff. It's really cool that they do. But the whole thing is that if you follow some sequence of steps, powder will clean as well as or better than pods for a third the cost. All right, this isn't a significant portion of my expenses so I'll pay the 3x cost since my dishes come out clean anyway. I wish the description of the video was like an abstract.

My kids would routinely put in too much powder, which would gunk up the dispensing mechanism, requiring my time and effort to clean it out and fix it. Eventually the dispenser broke entirely and had to be replaced. We since switched to pods and haven't had any problems with the dispenser. The pods are worth every extra cent.

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#159

Post by HumanOstrich »

hammock wrote: post #137
spondyl wrote: post #84

Hah! I had watched this just last night. I have a Fisher & Paykel Dishdrawer so this prompted me to check the instruction manual and sure enough, I had been putting Rinse Aid in the pre-wash area. I don't even really know what Rinse Aid is honestly but it's fun having some things be a black box. Turns out the correct spot is turning a knob, pulling it out and pouring it down a hole containing a glowing red light. I h…

I wouldn’t use rinse aid. It’s not good for you - damages your gut and may contain dioxane byproducts. I also would avoid detergents with ethoxylated alcohols (AEs). What to look for is any powder or powder-filled pod with a) no AEs and b) does contain amylase and protease , two food-eating enzymes that are often omitted for who knows why. 365 Whole Foods brand pods are my go-to

[Several citations needed]

Re: I was right about dishwasher pods and now I can prove it [video]

#160

Post by altairprime »

arjie wrote: post #130

I love that there are people who will go into this much detail on stuff. It's really cool that they do. But the whole thing is that if you follow some sequence of steps, powder will clean as well as or better than pods for a third the cost. All right, this isn't a significant portion of my expenses so I'll pay the 3x cost since my dishes come out clean anyway. I wish the description of the video was like an abstract.

While I’m sure dismissing the video is easy for someone with a dishwasher that already works fine with pods, having worked through all four(?) of those dishwasher videos, I have finally made an enzymatic powder work after months of effort when pods did not help.

Heavy Duty + Hot Wash doesn’t usually work. Doesn’t finish washing.

Heavy Duty + Sani Rinse doesn’t usually work. Weird residue issues for entire top rack.

Heavy Duty + Hot + Sani doesn’t work. Both of the above issues at once!

But, as it turns out —

Normal + Hot + Sani does work, perfectly, repeatedly.

The takeaway from the latest video for me is that the options aren’t Boolean on/off flags for different cycle-specific parameters, the cheap U.S. rental dishwasher comprehensively alters the entire program based on which total set of options are selected in non-intuitive ways.

So I have to use Normal not Heavy, Hot Wash and Sani-Rinse, or my wash cycle doesn’t wash properly. Which is absurd and obnoxious, but TIL, and suddenly I’ve had two consecutive loads of dishes come out clean for the first time in a year of trying.

No, the pods didn’t work either, as it turns out my dishwasher doesn’t reach the “enzymatic cleaning” temperatures off my rental’s barely-120F water using Hot Wash alone. No, the filter isn’t dirty. Yes, it drains fine. Yes, I’ve run cleaning cycles with several cleaning powders. Yes, run the tap to hot. Etc etc.

TLDR for the entire video: If your dishwasher isn’t cleaning fully, even if you use maximum powder or pods or cleaning it, make sure you’ve tried counterintuitive combinations with Light/Normal instead of Heavy, or Sani Rinse to improve the wash cycle, etc. Ruling out unlikely combos because they seem illogical may prevent you from finding a working set. (And if you’re using a powder formulated by anyone who sells colorful dishwasher pods, it’s probably designed to be less effective than the powder in their pods.)

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