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Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

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Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#71

Post by xorcist »

csense wrote: post #60

This applies to any company, doesn't it? Your home country can tell you "Give us your data" and you have to comply. "I will never give up customer data" is a very tough promise to keep, if the government threatens you with your business license being revoked, your servers and domains being forcibly seized by the police, and you personally going to jail. (Under the current US administration, we can add "A close examin…

That's not so. In a democratic state of law, the police can not unilaterally decide to seize you servers, and the politicians cannot tell the police to do so. Separation of powers is a thing.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#72

Post by mk89 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #11
shevy-java wrote: post #6

Time to pull away all EU data from the Trump USA.

I think many already started, the only reason it's starting to appear in the news is because people are making progress with the moves, and US companies are noticing it, but it's been planned and organized for a lot longer than just the last year.

I think starting from the day after CLOUD act was approved (2018).

Crazy to even think that such a law exists.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#73

Post by fsckboy »

hyghjiyhu wrote: post #5
alwayseasy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically here, he is under oath in France so an American gag order wouldn't protect him from the French justice system. This make it less likely he's lying. It could be possible Microsoft France has a "rogue" employee system where a key person only obeys to Microsoft US orders rather than his French boss and French law. Then the boss can swear to the Senate that they're complying. This is exactly the system the U…

If the data center is operated by a "trusted subsidiary" as the article mentions and everyone in key roles is a French citizen with no connection to the US then there is no one to give a gag order. In practice the US HQ could mandate a security update that secretly uploads all data to the US but that's a whole other can of worms that I don't think anyone is ready to open.

>In practice the US HQ could mandate a security update that secretly uploads all data to the US but that's a whole other can of worms that I don't think anyone is ready to open.

incredibly ambiguous/unsatisfying sentence. if this french hearing is concerned about french data security, then asking a question about your "in practice" is exactly a can of worms the french would like to open.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#74

Post by Yeul »

Havoc wrote: post #59

The whole concept of big cloud somehow setting up sovereign clouds in Europe seems incredibly naive to me. Every AWS employee knows where his bread is buttered - Seattle not Brussels

Yep when the CIA calls every American salutes and follows orders.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#75

Post by Yeul »

spongebobstoes wrote: post #22
jmyeet wrote: post #16

An inevitable consequence of this administration destroying US foreign influence and power at an unprecedented rate is that (IMHO) it is inevitable that the EU builds their own cloud and mandates its use for EU data. It is becoming a matter of national security. The interesting thing is that the US is acting in the exact way that they accuse China of acting. Companies like Huawei are forbidden from installing telecom…

I don't think that YouTube video is a good supporting piece for your point. The spokesperson says they don't want to propagate harmful stereotypes. "brag about silencing dissent" seems like a strawman interpretation A better faith interpretation is that people are free to criticize Israel and Zionism on Meta, just not using racist tropes.

Some of us remember Americans going ape shit over that Kirk guy lmao.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#76

Post by nashashmi »

US cloud act is definitely an overreach. Suddenly private infrastructure is now an extension of the government surveillance complex. This is the equivalent of the govt being able to put a camera on your building because they want to observe the public/private area around it.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#77

Post by jmyeet »

spongebobstoes wrote: post #46
jmyeet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh if that were only true. It's been made apparent in the last 2 years in particular that fighting antisemitism from the perspective of the ADL and figures like Jordana Cutler (who previously worked for the Israeli Prime Minister's Office) simply means silencing critcism of Israel, even when that means siding with actual antisemites (up to and including neo_nazis and outright Nazis). Examples: - Ben Shapiro excuses a…

I was replying to the claims on big tech company policies. Jordana Cutler appears to be an internal advocate for reducing antisemitism on the Meta platform. They don't set policy. There are many similar roles for many different groups, it's how the company tries to hear more points of view before making policy changes. We can only judge big tech company policy based on its declaration or application. So far I see no…

Meta is one of the worst for silencing ("downranking" or outright removing) pro-Palestinian content [1]. That's what Cutler is bragging about.

But it would be a mistake to single out Meta here. All these big tech companies move in lockstep with US foreign policy to appease the administration to get approvals for mergers, to end investigations and antitrust suits, to get government contracts and so on.

[1]: https://www.hrw.org/report/2023/12/21/metas-broken-promises/...

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#78

Post by 1123581321 »

IsTom wrote: post #41
1123581321 wrote: post #12

I wouldn't think "sovereign" EU data would be protected from US snooping either, unless the Five Eyes Plus alliance is going to be dissolved. Even then...

With UK out there's no Five Eyes members in EU.

"Plus" is key - Five Eyes Plus includes EU members France and Germany, at minimum. It's a comfortable informal relationship between Five Eyes and highly trusted nations that have almost joined Five Eyes in the past. France was closest to becoming the official sixth eye under Obama. Japan is another of these nations.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#79

Post by recursive »

xorcist wrote: post #71
csense wrote: post #60

This applies to any company, doesn't it? Your home country can tell you "Give us your data" and you have to comply. "I will never give up customer data" is a very tough promise to keep, if the government threatens you with your business license being revoked, your servers and domains being forcibly seized by the police, and you personally going to jail. (Under the current US administration, we can add "A close examin…

That's not so. In a democratic state of law, the police can not unilaterally decide to seize you servers, and the politicians cannot tell the police to do so. Separation of powers is a thing.

What would stop them from doing that?

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#80

Post by pqtyw »

Yeul wrote: post #74
Havoc wrote: post #59

The whole concept of big cloud somehow setting up sovereign clouds in Europe seems incredibly naive to me. Every AWS employee knows where his bread is buttered - Seattle not Brussels

Yep when the CIA calls every American salutes and follows orders.

Well no, but Bezos, Zuckerberg and Tim Apple will come grovelling when they are called... that's all it takes.

If you do something that the EU doesn't like it's response will be relatively rational and proportional. While the US government is currently run by unpredictable and volatile people. So risk/reward wise it's rather obvious whose orders they will be following.

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