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Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

forbes.com

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Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#51

Post by fukka42 »

potsandpans wrote: post #50
fukka42 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has no authority whatsoever over a foreign parent company. The US subsidiary also has no access to "foreign" data.

The US by and large can (and does) assert authority outside of its jurisdiction, from which another country can choose to capitulate. Most of the time countries do, because they are all swapping data on their citizens between themselves to skirt various laws. In the case where the US really wants something, and the country won't yield, they'll fund contras or destabilize the government (if small enough to be bullied)…

They can assert what they want, they have no way to enforce it.

Pretty funny you're jumping straight to warfare. This proves why Americans cannot be trusted.

In any case, it's better for me that the Americans will need to start a war with the EU to get at my data instead of just giving it to them.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#52

Post by jacquesm »

alwayseasy wrote: post #4
throwawayffffas wrote: post #3

> Carniaux did say that the situation had never arisen. That's what he would say if the company was under a gag order in the US. So I would take anything they say with a mountain of salt.

Specifically here, he is under oath in France so an American gag order wouldn't protect him from the French justice system. This make it less likely he's lying. It could be possible Microsoft France has a "rogue" employee system where a key person only obeys to Microsoft US orders rather than his French boss and French law. Then the boss can swear to the Senate that they're complying. This is exactly the system the U…

Less likely doesn't say much though. He may have simply weighed the chances of the French government ever finding out that he lied.

> It could be possible Microsoft France has a "rogue" employee system where a key person only obeys to Microsoft US orders rather than his French boss and French law.

I would think that is not just a possibility, but a certainty.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#53

Post by potsandpans »

fukka42 wrote: post #51
potsandpans wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US by and large can (and does) assert authority outside of its jurisdiction, from which another country can choose to capitulate. Most of the time countries do, because they are all swapping data on their citizens between themselves to skirt various laws. In the case where the US really wants something, and the country won't yield, they'll fund contras or destabilize the government (if small enough to be bullied)…

They can assert what they want, they have no way to enforce it. Pretty funny you're jumping straight to warfare. This proves why Americans cannot be trusted. In any case, it's better for me that the Americans will need to start a war with the EU to get at my data instead of just giving it to them.

We agree, I'm not saying anything is good or desirable. Just pointing out, this is how they achieve overreach: coercion.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#54

Post by jacquesm »

emodendroket wrote: post #33

A bit of a "hoist by their own petard" situation since the US has been raising this specter about Chinese tech for quite some time.

Yes. For Europe there isn't a real alternative other than to painstakingly re-grow our independence. That will take a long time.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#58

Post by BiteCode_dev »

eeasss wrote: post #48

This is known. The problem is that the EU is hooked on us technology. I don’t see this untangling soon which is a big strategic weakness

Pretty much yes. From Saas to authentication systems to OS to chips. The EU infra is entirely dependent on the US. All documents, emails, chat messages, and most forms of storage are directly or indirectly linked to an American service.

On top of that, the US can update it all remotely, including the hardware now thanks to things like intel ME.

Let's hope we never get into a conflict with them, because even without bombs, they can basically shut us down with a few keystrokes: https://www.bitecode.dev/p/the-eu-can-be-shut-down-with-a-fe...

Or at least have everything they need to develop such a capability. And it's not like the current people in power care much about alienating other countries.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#60

Post by csense »

This applies to any company, doesn't it?

Your home country can tell you "Give us your data" and you have to comply.

"I will never give up customer data" is a very tough promise to keep, if the government threatens you with your business license being revoked, your servers and domains being forcibly seized by the police, and you personally going to jail.

(Under the current US administration, we can add "A close examination of the immigration status of all foreign nationals employed by your company, followed by probable deportation or jail" to the list of potential consequences for resisting the government.)

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