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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#571

Post by luisml77 »

luisml77 wrote: post #510
fyrecean wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about this is communism vs capitalism? Or even closed vs open source. There are billions of android devices in people's hands. Requiring a centralized authority to authorize what code people get to run on their own devices has nothing to do with a free market economy. This is a private entity telling us it's not safe to run code on our own computers without their approval. Linux doesn't need a for profit company…

Because everyone in this comment section is arguing that Android should be open-source and detached from Google. I'm saying some things are simply too big to be built by the community. The developers need to get paid. And the developers only get paid if the system is closed-source such that the revenue can only flow back to Google which is where the developers are hired at. In other words, yes it needs to be centrali…

This is the problem with this Hacker News platform. Who is downvoting me instead of discussing my points?

This platform has the EXACT same problem as Reddit. People can just silence you before you had a chance of discussion. What a waste of fucking time. Instead of improving our world models of reality by having discussions, you can just silence others because you disagree. Remove the fucking downvote button! Just remove it, jesus fucking christ. Who thought this button was a good fucking idea?

I'm nearly out of this garbage. The same way I left Reddit long ago. X is the only platform that allows free speech.

Re: Keep Android Open

#572

Post by rezonant »

jb1991 wrote: post #438
rezonant wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free provisioning: If you do not pay the developer fee an app installed via Xcode will work for 7 days. Afterwards the app on your phone will *stop working*, and you must open Xcode on your Mac again, and push a new build to your phone if you want to keep using it. Paid provisioning: If you have paid the developer fee, a build will expire based on the amount of time left before that payment renews, so if you build an…

I've been doing it that way for years on the free account, never seemed like a bother to me. I usually have a tweak I want to make to the code anyway. But I suppose some might find it inconvenient. In any case, to say you can't put your own apps on your phone without paying a fee is incorrect, which is the comment I was responding to.

Saying what youve said above and knowing full well how this works, but failing to mention a crucial fact like this is deceptive.

Re: Keep Android Open

#573

Post by overfeed »

izacus wrote: post #554
overfeed wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? We don't! Instead, we go to regulators. Though I suspect your question really is "Why bother with salvaging Android at all?" Mobile platforms are hard - famously, Microsoft failed to make Windows phone a viable platform, and John Carmack successfully argued that Meta didn't need a custom OS. Mozilla's Mobile OS that had OEM partners making real phones spluttered ou…

A lot of these pushes for attestation are coming from regulators and security audits though.

If that's inevitably the case, then we should all enjoy the ability to install user-controlled, open source operating systems while we still can.

However, if it's not inevitable, then those who cherish such freedoms should forcibly push back against the attempts to strip them away.

Re: Keep Android Open

#574

Post by takluyver »

zouhair wrote: post #538
smaudet wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. Because the market has failed, and we have a duopoly. There are many reasons for that, but, this is the exact sort of time a govt must step in - when something becomes a utility, it needs to be regulated as such. I agree, I don't really want to enshrine Google/Apple into law, however if they are makers of an operating system that is used like a common ut…

Samsung can cut ties with Google if they want to, they have market share to go on their own.

I'm sure they would love to. They've been trying to make their own app store (Galaxy Store) a thing for over a decade. But cutting ties with Google would mean no Google Apps and no Google Play Store, and that would probably be catastrophic for them.

Re: Keep Android Open

#576

Post by ivanmontillam »

MostlyStable wrote: post #514
viktorcode wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. Those work perfectly via a browser, on any platform where the browser can run. As long as a hypothetical open OS has a browser capable with bog standard moder…

I tried to log into a banking website on a full desktop browser recently, one that I had previously used with a password. It literally would not let me login until I downloaded their app and set up a passkey. That is now the _only_ way for me to access those accounts. Presumably, I could call in, though I wouldn't be surprised if the person on the phone also asked that I download the app in order to verify my identit…

The happened to me with Uphold, precisely yesterday.

It required me to install the application to sign in via web browser. There was no way, the web app wouldn't bulge.

I did it, checked my $5 dollars balance and deleted the app again.

Totally disgusting behaviour.

Re: Keep Android Open

#577

Post by kube-system »

jayd16 wrote: post #523
kube-system wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, it doesn't. The browser is unsupported for many of the above-mentioned applications.

Can I get an example of a single one that can't be found on the web?

Netflix? Telegram's push 2FA? Any mobile wallet application? The vast majority of dating apps? Any of the app-only social networks? Basically all keyless entry applications?

Re: Keep Android Open

#578

Post by yupyupyups »

dangus wrote: post #419
state_less wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in '99 Linux didn't run Excel/Word/Powerpoint or most games, but I ran it anyway. What others call showstoppers are for me inconveniences. I have a motorolla edge 2024 that I'll load whatever open source phone OS will work well enough to place calls and browse the web. I'll keep another phone for the rare times some corporate/government overlord requires it. Many folks who refuse to use smartphones, similarly ow…

Bingo, this right here. Linux desktop wasn’t a daily driver until one day it was. Although the only problem with this strategy is that Linux got that way because of a lot of private companies that actually wanted that. Valve didn’t want to be locked in with Microsoft. Many of Microsoft’s direct competitors also don’t want to be locked in. IBM famously switched to Mac, Google has been using Mac and Linux workstations…

Lots of private companies do not want to be forced to pay Apple and Google a hefty chunk of their earnings either. That's what drove Epic Games and Spotify to fight Apple.

Re: Keep Android Open

#579

Post by SergeAx »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

The web is an open platform, and most, if not all, aforementioned applications are happily working on the web.
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