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Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

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Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because 92% of Americans have health insurance, and 22% have totally free everything covered health insurance. Of the uninsured, most either are eligible but don't apply, have insurance through work but forgo it, or are not US citizens. All said and done, you end up with a very small sliver of people who are legitimately uninsured, which means the problem mostly exists as scary stories rather than people actually exp…

Wildly false. This thread is full of people sharing stories of being supposedly "insured" and getting fucked anyway. The complete lack of transparency around what your insurance covers, something you can't be expected to verify while in the middle of a dire medical crisis, can lead to a life destroying bill. Nobody should have to be wondering what company an ambulance works for. It's crazy. The whole world thinks it'…

I don't know what I said that is wildly false. Or even false for that matter.

People getting surprise bills that their insurance will not cover is rare, because being in a situation where it's a possibly is rare. Insurance pre-approves or denies care before it is done, so you really need to be in the ER and getting odd-ball care that falls outside standard procedure.

I'm also not defending them system, it is a mess (even I posted a story in this thread), but the fact of the matter is that the system largely works for most people, so things like inflation, wages, housing which have daily reminders of shittyness for huge swaths of people gets political priority.

A better way to think of this is like bad car accidents. They are horrific and most people know someone who knows someone with a story, but we don't put a lot of political capital into improving vehicle safety. Most people go their whole lives with no accident.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#342

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence. ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, hel…

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The US money machine has one of the most sophisticated propaganda networks in the history of the world working to make sure nothing ever gets better for working class people. In George Orwell's vision of a dystopian future, "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." In the US, the party didn't even have to issue the command, they just asked a few thousand talking heads to do it.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#344

I fought insurance over this past summer after they declined covering a life saving surgery for my 6-year-old child at the last minute. We were in despair that my child's life was at risk each day we waited because of insurance incompetence. ChatGPT literally guided me through the whole external appeal process, who to contact outside of normal channels to ask for help / apply pressure, researched questions I had, hel…

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To the extent that U.S. voters want to maintain the status quo, which many (though not most) voters do wish to do, it's largely driven by an individualist mindset in which the worst thing that can happen is somebody else getting something that they didn't "earn".

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#345
post #48

We suddenly woke up in the Kafka-esque purgatory of critical American healthcare billing. We’re in our 50s and had been perfectly healthy, then suddenly we got diagnosed with what will be over $500k in treatment over the next 12 months— and multiple millions for the foreseeable future. We have insurance, but many of the required procedures are “out of network” and there’s no way to tell (we have “the best” insurance,…

> And we all just accept the bills and pay them. I got a bill for $250,000. Uninsured at the time. I have refused to pay it (due to inability), consequences to my credit be darned.

I recommend making a good faith effort to negotiate and start a payment plan (reading the fine print on the overall commitment). But bankruptcy is a viable option if you don’t have a ton of assets at risk.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…

Yes, a challenge for major structural alterations to the American system is that the median American family is probably better off under this system than they would be under any of the European-style systems: the wage premium enjoyed by many Americans and the lower tax level offsets the cost of insurance and copays. So when you're talking about how bad the American system is, you're really talking about a minority of…

> about how bad the American system is, you're really talking about a minority of its users

It sure seems that way if a wealth family with top level insurance can still get bankrupt by medical bills. Examples of that are right here in comments.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#347
post #309

When UnitedHealthcare CEO was killed the public sentiment was that the health insurance companies are the bad guy—and the CEO deserved what he got. Then when stories like this come out we realize no, it is actually the hospitals. In reality the whole system is broken. Some people think single payer system is the solution but then when they talk to Canadians they realize that's not the solution either. I think the cor…

>Some people think single payer system is the solution but then when they talk to Canadians they realize that's not the solution either. I'm sorry but I don't understand this discourse. While we have gripes with the state of some hospitals that fall short of first world standards (e.g. Gatineau Hospital) and wait times for specialists for non-urgent care (it can take 2-3 months to see a dermatologist after referral f…

The wait time you alluded to is indeed the issue. The issue is not limited to dermatologists.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#348
post #51

Having lived in Europe 10 years (I am from south America), it is crazy that the rest of the world doesn't follow Europe's health coverage: everybody is covered, all the time, you can be covered either by public insurance (was my case) or private. There are no preconditions. Kids get covered for almost everything up until they are 18 or 21 (don't remember), drugs for adults is only 5 euro each. No matter the cost. And…

> US health care which is probably one of the worst in the world Not really. If you have money, the US system is one of the best. It just really, really sucks if you don't have money.

Well, everything is great if you have money. I was talking about the health care as a system.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#349
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have heard the US is a democracy It's not a simple democracy, no (i.e. "enact a national-level vote for every issue and majority vote wins"). It's a constitutional republic where basically you have 50 mini countries each with different weight in the house of representatives and in the electoral college and a bazillion checks and balances that make repealing existing laws and enacting new ones very difficult. I th…

> It's not a simple democracy, no (i.e. "enact a national-level vote for every issue and majority vote wins"). But it's worth remembering that, if it were, Trump would still have won. He won the popular vote. So, assuming that enough votes were legitimate, a majority of Americans actually do want the current health situation in the US, in fact arguably they want even less coverage.

We don't know if that's really accurate, because you're conveniently ignoring 2016. If Trump were never initially president, would he have ever become one?

Maybe, maybe not. But 2024 surely would have looked very different.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…

> they really disagree about what to do about it

What is there to disagree with? Are there any option other than introduction of universal healthcare?

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