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Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
321–330 of 954 posts
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
I like the idea but I'm sure that's a YC startup working on juicing revenue from patients being spun at the same time.
So build faster and better than YC to defend society|humanity against YC portfolio companies (not all, of course, just the harmful ones) until politics can close the gap. There is no speed limit. There is no moat. The only thing you don't have is ~$500k in investment [1]. Constraint breeds creativity. Be creative, stay curious. [1] https://www.ycombinator.com/deal
It's very hard to believe that a company setting out to fight against one of the major "legs" of the stool of the US Economy is going to be playing on a level playing field against companies whose mission is to strengthen those legs. Even if the business idea is sound. There's simply too much money and power wrapped up in ensuring healthcare remains a money sponge that soaks the public. A company fighting that will never be funded by anyone significant.
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#323We suddenly woke up in the Kafka-esque purgatory of critical American healthcare billing. We’re in our 50s and had been perfectly healthy, then suddenly we got diagnosed with what will be over $500k in treatment over the next 12 months— and multiple millions for the foreseeable future. We have insurance, but many of the required procedures are “out of network” and there’s no way to tell (we have “the best” insurance,…
> Absolutely no one will tell you how much things are, and when you ask, they sass you that it is a ridiculous question. > You’ll be asked to take a diagnostic not knowing whether it will cost $10 or $15000 I feel this in my bones and it makes me irrationally (or maybe it's rational actually) angry. Find me any other industry where you can get away with not telling how much something will cost (or even a realistic ra…
That’s exactly what we experienced. There is no way to be an informed customer or “vote with your wallet”. For many diagnostics and services, the “provider” is 2 referrals downstream – the patient never elects or engages with them.
Plus, your life is on the line. If they don’t run the test, it means the wrong treatment and your prognosis goes from 80% survival to 80% mortality
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#324I was hospitalized about two decades ago, before ACA passed, so my insurance was limited to 500k, I was on the hook for about 180k beyond that... because I was making decent income I was ineligible for Medicaid or any other assistance... I worked extra jobs for a number of years after, every tax return, the couple bonuses that I'd earned all went towards paying it down... Anyone who was willing to negotiate the amount or take reasonable payments got paid... the rest could wait... after the 7 years before it was no longer eligible for being on my credit statement, I stopped (still owed about 40k iirc).
The past few years, I've been receiving some very expensive treatments for my eyes... given the job market, I've been without and switched jobs a couple times... been caught with a few unexpected bills for around $15k... it just sucks. I'm currently making about 2/3 of what I was a couple years ago, with no better job prospects, the insurance I have is "emergency" based and doesn't cover my regular doctor bills... I'm at my max at this point, thinking about bankruptcy for a while now.
The system sucks... the billing system(s) suck and the fact that it's as messed up as it is, is so much worse. From monopoly positions, to messed up billing, to everything else... I don't even know. Even on a six figure salary, I cannot afford private insurance and the multiple $300-400 doctor and pharmacy bills each month are seriously destroying me.
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…
> So like these are less serious issues if you are paid an extra $1-200k/ year
Ok but to be fair most people in the US aren't making "extra $1-200k / year" over a person in Europe. They aren't even making $100k / year to begin with.
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#326Can't wait for it to be AIs arguing back & forth with all sorts of unforeseen consequences arising. We have much to think through, & strong, simple rules to put in place, or things are going to get rather out of hand.
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
I feel a great deal of sympathy for you. A medical event wiped out my meager life savings - I’m a tad younger but I worked my whole life for much of it just to go “poof” because of exactly what you are describing. I don’t feel I have a hope at retiring anymore and it makes me really depressed.
1. There are assistances available for low-net-worth and low income individuals. Have you tried those options? 2. Refuse to pay. Medical debt doesn't count against your credit and, based on my own experience, is almost impossible for the other party to collect, except some annoying phone calls.
I make a good living. I have some of the "best" available health insurance. It's just bordering on scam/fraudulent. Not aware of what programs you're talking about other than medi-cal (medicaid). Which I do not qualify for.
As I alluded in another post I do often let debt go to collections. The issue is often not the collections calls, but that your provider will be even more aggressive about demanding up front payment to continue receiving care. Or stop seeing you. I have a rare neuro muscular disease that only a handful of doctors are even very knowledgeable about where I live.
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Absolutely no one will tell you how much things are, and when you ask, they sass you that it is a ridiculous question. > You’ll be asked to take a diagnostic not knowing whether it will cost $10 or $15000 I feel this in my bones and it makes me irrationally (or maybe it's rational actually) angry. Find me any other industry where you can get away with not telling how much something will cost (or even a realistic ra…
> I got an eye roll, a lengthy and exasperated lecture... This is the part that is galling to me. Apparently no healthcare worker I've ever spoken with about billing has ever had the same considerations I do re: finances. My inquiries have almost always been met with zero empathy and contempt that I would even be so gauche as to ask. (It's 1000x worse when you're talking to them about your child's medical care. My da…
I share the exasperation about the lack of empathy. I know these providers are humans and would ask the same questions. They probably negotiated their car, housekeeper over a few hundred dollars. But when I ask about $10k here or there for critical care suddenly I’m greedy or unrealistic?
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> I have heard the US is a democracy It's not a simple democracy, no (i.e. "enact a national-level vote for every issue and majority vote wins"). It's a constitutional republic where basically you have 50 mini countries each with different weight in the house of representatives and in the electoral college and a bazillion checks and balances that make repealing existing laws and enacting new ones very difficult. I th…
> It's not a simple democracy, no (i.e. "enact a national-level vote for every issue and majority vote wins").
But it's worth remembering that, if it were, Trump would still have won. He won the popular vote. So, assuming that enough votes were legitimate, a majority of Americans actually do want the current health situation in the US, in fact arguably they want even less coverage.
Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…
> So like these are less serious issues if you are paid an extra $1-200k/ year Ok but to be fair most people in the US aren't making "extra $1-200k / year" over a person in Europe. They aren't even making $100k / year to begin with.
Almost 40% of the USA is on medicare, medicaid, or entitled to VA benefits or military healthcare. It's only a narrow majority that depends on unsubsidized private healthcare, and those people skew in the upper income levels.