Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

threads.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 954 posts

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#171

Post by hathawsh »

Zambyte wrote: post #163
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A code is not an artistic expression and so can't be copyrightable. The layout of a book of codes, for sure, but the information in it... might be protectable with other IPR but not copyright. Does not stop people threatening you though. This is my opinion only, not legal advice, and does not relate to my employment.

Software I write at work is not artistic expression yet is covered by copyright. This isn't a counter argument, just pointing out how absurd copyright is.

Consider these thoughts: https://wiki.c2.com/?SoftwareIsArt

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#172

Post by drdec »

mjr00 wrote: post #42
ibash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is the prices are all made up anyway. The hospital hallucinates prices, so they don’t blink an eye when an llm does the same.

Yeah, US hospital billing is based on the idea that the patient has insurance and won't really care about what their insurer gets charged. (The wider implications of this are left to the reader.) For the uninsured this sort of thing is actually really common. Had an online friend who had to get emergency treatment and they sent him a bill for $20k. His response was, "lol I'm uninsured and don't give a fuck about my c…

> Yeah, US hospital billing is based on the idea that the patient has insurance and won't really care about what their insurer gets charged. (The wider implications of this are left to the reader.)

Don't leave out the part where the consumer doesn't even shop (or sometimes pay) for the insurance policy either, it is determined by their place of work.

So the consumer of healthcare is doubly shielded from any price signals the market might supply.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#173

Post by pbhjpbhj »

gpm wrote: post #143
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A code is not an artistic expression and so can't be copyrightable. The layout of a book of codes, for sure, but the information in it... might be protectable with other IPR but not copyright. Does not stop people threatening you though. This is my opinion only, not legal advice, and does not relate to my employment.

Judging by Judge Alsup's ruling even if the codes were copyrighted it would most likely not be copyright infringement to train on them either, and as such even if they are copyrightable and they do own copyright on them it remains beyond their abilities to forbid training on them. (Also opinion, also not legal advice, I'm also not a lawyer and sort of doubt the person I'm responding to is).

IANAL, you're right.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#174

Post by vincnetas »

mjr00 wrote: post #42
ibash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is the prices are all made up anyway. The hospital hallucinates prices, so they don’t blink an eye when an llm does the same.

Yeah, US hospital billing is based on the idea that the patient has insurance and won't really care about what their insurer gets charged. (The wider implications of this are left to the reader.) For the uninsured this sort of thing is actually really common. Had an online friend who had to get emergency treatment and they sent him a bill for $20k. His response was, "lol I'm uninsured and don't give a fuck about my c…

this looks like shopping in Moroccan bazaar with no price labels. But here you bargaining not for couple fruits but for your health and price range is in thousands. WTF :)

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#175

Post by [deleted] »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #138
ecosystem wrote: post #74

The American Medical Association owns copyright to all the codes and their descriptions. They have an extremely restrictive and expensive licensing options and they strictly forbid training models with the codes. This month, the practice was called out ( https://www.help.senate.gov/rep/newsroom/press/chair-cassidy... ) so the Overton window may be opening. The AMA (a nonprofit!) clears ~$300M/year revenue from the co…

A code is not an artistic expression and so can't be copyrightable. The layout of a book of codes, for sure, but the information in it... might be protectable with other IPR but not copyright. Does not stop people threatening you though. This is my opinion only, not legal advice, and does not relate to my employment.

[deleted]

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#176

Post by embedding-shape »

hathawsh wrote: post #171
Zambyte wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software I write at work is not artistic expression yet is covered by copyright. This isn't a counter argument, just pointing out how absurd copyright is.

Consider these thoughts: https://wiki.c2.com/?SoftwareIsArt

Also the collection of essays carrying the name "Hackers & Painters" is of relevance.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#177

Post by Workaccount2 »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #108

The rest of the western world just looks at this as wonders why Americans put up with this. Using the latest in technology to move an a bill from existential to merely crippling

Because 92% of Americans have health insurance, and 22% have totally free everything covered health insurance. Of the uninsured, most either are eligible but don't apply, have insurance through work but forgo it, or are not US citizens.

All said and done, you end up with a very small sliver of people who are legitimately uninsured, which means the problem mostly exists as scary stories rather than people actually experiencing it.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#178

Post by xp84 »

Aloisius wrote: post #158
fatnoah wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The wider implications of this are left to the reader. IMHO, it's actually worse than we realize. The Medical Loss Ratio requirement is good because it requires insurance companies to spend 80% or 85% of premiums on health care. It's bad because one way for insurance companies to make more money is to have inflated health care prices to justify increasing premiums so they can get 80% of a bigger pie. It also gives t…

> one way for insurance companies to make more money is to have inflated health care prices to justify increasing premiums This only makes sense if they have no competitors since another insurance company would just steal their customers by having lower rates. The truth is though, healthcare providers are ultimately responsible for prices.

> since another insurance company would just steal their customers by having lower

LOL. Meanwhile, in real-life America, there are only four or five major carriers that control the market, and none of them are incentivized to do this "competition" thing you speak of by engaging in damaging price wars. Why would they when continuing to be part of the problem makes them more and more profits each year? See also: military contracting. Do you see them constantly undercutting each other? No, they buy each other, reducing the number of bidders on every contract.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#179

Post by bazmattaz »

tonymet wrote: post #48

We suddenly woke up in the Kafka-esque purgatory of critical American healthcare billing. We’re in our 50s and had been perfectly healthy, then suddenly we got diagnosed with what will be over $500k in treatment over the next 12 months— and multiple millions for the foreseeable future. We have insurance, but many of the required procedures are “out of network” and there’s no way to tell (we have “the best” insurance,…

I can’t help but think there is a huge opportunity here for a health care provider that provides routines scans and such with fixed transparent pricing.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#180

Post by f1shy »

fatnoah wrote: post #62
mjr00 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, US hospital billing is based on the idea that the patient has insurance and won't really care about what their insurer gets charged. (The wider implications of this are left to the reader.) For the uninsured this sort of thing is actually really common. Had an online friend who had to get emergency treatment and they sent him a bill for $20k. His response was, "lol I'm uninsured and don't give a fuck about my c…

>The wider implications of this are left to the reader. IMHO, it's actually worse than we realize. The Medical Loss Ratio requirement is good because it requires insurance companies to spend 80% or 85% of premiums on health care. It's bad because one way for insurance companies to make more money is to have inflated health care prices to justify increasing premiums so they can get 80% of a bigger pie. It also gives t…

Fuck those assholes!!! From 20k to 500… how do you name that?
Post reply on HN