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EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

eurollm.io

161–170 of 629 posts

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#161
post #133

They report benchmarks on the huggingface page ( https://huggingface.co/utter-project/EuroLLM-9B ) They almost exclusively compare their model to prior models from 2024 or older and brag about "results comparable to Gemma-2-9B". I'm not sure what I expected. The eurollm.io homepage states "EuroLLM outperforms similar-sized models", which just seems like a lie for all practical purposes An overly charitable interpreta…

> They almost exclusively compare their model to prior models from 2024

As another comment here noted, the title is missing (2024) - this model was released almost a year ago, last December, so it's not surprising that that's the models they compare to.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#162
post #145

[flagged]

Yeah no, it's just not how it works. They're trying to support fundamental research and they have limited resources to accomplish them. Some random dude who wants to build a company that generates pretty AI pictures is just not the target audience, and he rightly got rejected. And frankly, the dream scenario that Pieter describes where he somehow would qualify for these resources also wouldn't help kickstart the tech…

I don't think what you're saying is inconsistent with what I'm saying. I think you are making a big deal out of the difference between state investment funds and subsidized GPUs but I think they basically work by similar mechanisms.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#163
post #7

I was thinking the same, why are so many superior models coming from only countries like US and China. And why are European countries not in the list other than France with Mistral. Why are so few companies in India, Japan, South Korea even close to a promising new model like what Chinese companies did ?

Does it even make sense? Just use the American or Chinese ones, adjust As needed. Where’s the point in spending millions to build The same thing or worse

Now that the big bets have been made, who wants to try to compete with them?

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#164
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's REALLY much more important though if you want to be a part of the AI race and I've posted for years here with @euaccofficial is to make Europe a really extremely attractive place to start and run an AI business. Remove regulatory obstructions and give tax discounts for startups. Let them build a business first that can compete worldwide and once they make enough money (let's say $100M/y), then slowly start a…

It’s probably the people who didn’t start a business in the EU that you want to talk to. Like, I’m European, but I started my company in the US because everything is so much easier here.

Where in Europe and where in the US? You probably started one in the easiest US state to do so. Did you try starting one in the easiest EU state? Otherwise we already can't take things very seriously.

Secondly, what's easier besides VC funding? If it's VC funding, the disparity there has nothing to do with regulations - guess how much VC funding the non-EU rest of the world gets.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#165

[flagged]

Is the point of these policies to pick winners? Or to upskill the creators and stimulate the economy by giving possible entrepreneurs experience Europeans can't get in big tech?

In the US, some ex-Googler might found a startup. Europe doesn't have the equivalent of FAANG. (Europe-wide companies are not quite as easy as US-wide)

Even if the super computer itself "fails", is the goal actually the secondary impacts to the economy?

(And in the US, we do our own fair share of picking winners / losers, especially in the current regime)

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#166
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it is a complete misreading to point to protectionism as the reason for Chinese success, but having a big unified domestic market for consumers along with massive saving rates and capital controls probably does help. Capital controls are protectionist measures, but anyway, no. > Okay, what is the limiting factor? Let's look at which countries have a significant local software industry compared to population…

> Their market share is almost 1:1 linearly correlated to the degree of protectionism in those countries Seems like you actually believe this. I think our starting points on reality are different enough that we are not going to have a productive conversation, I wish you and other Europeans the best of luck in your protectionism-led growth strategy. Make sure to not discuss it with any pesky macroeconomists who might…

I've provided very specific cases that directly support this, you've so far provided nothing. This is a really poor comment.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#167

If multi‑lang is the goal, why not translate the output of the big labs?

Surely that would need to be both input and output. But even then you could easily get lost in translation as the intent in one language might mean slightly different thing in another. Thus you could get subpar results.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#168
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's REALLY much more important though if you want to be a part of the AI race and I've posted for years here with @euaccofficial is to make Europe a really extremely attractive place to start and run an AI business. Remove regulatory obstructions and give tax discounts for startups. Let them build a business first that can compete worldwide and once they make enough money (let's say $100M/y), then slowly start a…

> When you talk to most EU business owners, even in tech, the limiting factor isn't regulations. This being the #1 reason is such a tired trope. Okay, what is the limiting factor? Because when I talk to EU business owners (admittedly, very few) - they point to lack of big EU capital markets, which is directly downstream of the policy environment. And when I talk to top EU human capital, they all point to the lack of…

> Okay, what is the limiting factor

A few.

A big part is that the EU is a collection of countries that (with very few exceptions) have different languages and laws. For a company to serve Spain and France, for instance, it would need to translate everything, hire local lawyers and customer support agents. Considering the much smaller size of the countries (biggest one is 70 million vs 330 million in the US), the opportunity for "unlimited" growth is limited.

This also rebounds in the fact that when an American company makes it big, they have the resources to flood other EU markets and be cheaper/better than the local competition due to economies of scale and money based on their big successful US market. A French company making it big is still small compared to a US equivalent.

Then, there's the capital markets, no denying that. The money being thrown around the US is like nowhere else on the planet. Some of it definitely a bubble / unrealistic, but that doesn't matter. But in part it's because of the size of the total potential market that this is justified.

Education / national mythology also plays a part, I think (this is pure conjecture now). In the US, the "American Dream", "everyone can make it" etc is heavily ingrained. It propagates through the world with the help of Hollywood and other American cultural exports. In most EU countries, there isn't such a heavy emphasis on independence and "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps". "Hustle culture" isn't a thing. So for most people, it isn't something that comes naturally to them to start a company and work 100 hour weeks to be big and rich and successful and famous.

That's not to say there aren't such people, I went to 42 and have been to Station F and know some people in that universe. A decent proportion of my classmates wanted to make their startup and make it big, and some did end up starting their own companies.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This raises an interesting question. Is there only one dialect of German in the LLM? My understanding is that the German German and Austrian German dialects are significantly different.

My German teacher always claimed that Swiss German and German German (Hochdeutsch) were so different that she needed subtitles to understand it, and she didn't understand why they weren't considered separate languages.

They are in fact considered separate languages.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#170
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s probably the people who didn’t start a business in the EU that you want to talk to. Like, I’m European, but I started my company in the US because everything is so much easier here.

> but I started my company in the US because everything is so much easier here Which part is easier? That you have 50 different states with slightly varying laws to consider (e.g. Californian Data protection)? That you have a byzantine system of "benefits" to choose and manage? And compared to where? Germany or Estonia or Sweden or Spain? The complexities will vary wildly depending on the country (kind of like in the…

"That you have 50 different states with slightly varying laws to consider (e.g. Californian Data protection)?"

there are certain sentences you can just tell would never be written by an American lol

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