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EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

eurollm.io

131–140 of 629 posts

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#131
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's REALLY much more important though if you want to be a part of the AI race and I've posted for years here with @euaccofficial is to make Europe a really extremely attractive place to start and run an AI business. Remove regulatory obstructions and give tax discounts for startups. Let them build a business first that can compete worldwide and once they make enough money (let's say $100M/y), then slowly start a…

> When you talk to most EU business owners, even in tech, the limiting factor isn't regulations. This being the #1 reason is such a tired trope. Okay, what is the limiting factor? Because when I talk to EU business owners (admittedly, very few) - they point to lack of big EU capital markets, which is directly downstream of the policy environment. And when I talk to top EU human capital, they all point to the lack of…

One fairly large factor is that even though English is much more common today, you just can't operate (depending on the product of course) in many countries without having customer support, documentation etc in the local language.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#132

Aren't all frontier models already able to use all these languages? Support for specific languages doesn't need to be built in, LLMs support all languages because they are trained on multilingual data.

Not natively, they all sound translated in languages other than English. I occasionally come across French people complaining about LLMs' use of non-idiomatic French, but it's probably not a French problem at all, considering that this effort includes so many Indo-European languages.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#133
They report benchmarks on the huggingface page (https://huggingface.co/utter-project/EuroLLM-9B)

They almost exclusively compare their model to prior models from 2024 or older and brag about "results comparable to Gemma-2-9B". I'm not sure what I expected. The eurollm.io homepage states "EuroLLM outperforms similar-sized models", which just seems like a lie for all practical purposes

An overly charitable interpretation is that EuroLLM isn't a reasoning model and has minimal post-training, so they sought out comparisons to such models (they're still ignoring reasoning models that have non-reasoning modes)

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#134

[flagged]

While grant process in EU isn't fun, I think Levels has bit of an ego issues. He mentioned that if he had issues like that on eg X, he would see Elon himself in the replies. While he is great at converting his influencer status to income in his micro-SaaS projects, I don't think running ad-fueled browser games on state-sponsored super computer should be really aim of these grant programs.

I'm actually no fan of his, so that's fine. That said, I went to the actual website he was talking about (I'm also an EU citizen) and in this case it is exactly as described and bordering comical.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flemish? I remember watching a TV show in Flemish ( Hotel Beau Séjour [0]), so it's prevalent enough to invest that kind of money into. What about Basque? Is that too controversial? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Beau_Séjour

I think those 24 languages reflect all the languages that are official languages at country level. So for instance, Basque is not an official language of any country (only French in France and Spanish/Castilian in Spain). Belgium's official languages are French, Dutch, and German, "Flemish" is only a local variant of Dutch (Belgian French is also only a local variant of French).

Basque is an official language and declared as such in the Spanish constitution however restricted only to the regions that decide to apply it (Basque Country and Navarra).

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#136
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbf, he's kinda on point. The EU Parlament has it's issues, and it's atrocious how corrupt politicians like e.g. von der Laien fail upwards into leadership roles there, but they're both massively exaggerating the issues to a degree that it's hard to call the stated opinions anything but unhinged. Its kinda like calling a Chihuahua "apex predator". completely out of touch with reality.

Okay, can you please quote me directly what I said that is unhinged/delusional or explain why he is on point that I should seek help? I think you have lost sight of that being an incredibly rude thing to say to someone, but maybe not?

Feudalism is a problem in some corners, but it's mostly a UK thing. The US has its own almost-feudalism like ownership structure (see 1980s to now wealth distribution), which is problematic, but it's not bad enough (yet) to halt the US economy.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#137
post #2

For those curious, the 24 official languages are Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, and Swedish. Maltese, interestingly, is the only Afro-Asiatic derived language. Hungarian, Finnish, and Estonian are the three Uralic languages. All the others ar…

Flemish? I remember watching a TV show in Flemish ( Hotel Beau Séjour [0]), so it's prevalent enough to invest that kind of money into. What about Basque? Is that too controversial? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotel_Beau_Séjour

Basque is not controversial, but spoken just by very little people.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#138
post #7

I was thinking the same, why are so many superior models coming from only countries like US and China. And why are European countries not in the list other than France with Mistral. Why are so few companies in India, Japan, South Korea even close to a promising new model like what Chinese companies did ?

EU made a >900 page law about AI and patted themselves on the back for being "the first to regulate AI" (which was not even true, China had an AI law before and it's two pages long).

This cannot be stressed enough. In my experience working in multiple tech startups in Germany, the power compliance, legal and all other 2nd line has over engineering is quite immense. Most of the time they act as a hindrance for innovation rather than a supporting factor.

This AI law is a clear example of that. Pencil pushers creating more obstacles for the sake of creating more obstacles rather than actually taking a pragmatic approach.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#139
post #7

I was thinking the same, why are so many superior models coming from only countries like US and China. And why are European countries not in the list other than France with Mistral. Why are so few companies in India, Japan, South Korea even close to a promising new model like what Chinese companies did ?

As a European citizen I think it boils down to access to the capital. EU/EEA is not a country and the market is sort of fragmented. The big players are UK, France, Germany, everyone else does not have the same access to money as say in the US. Folks want to do it but there is a glass ceiling. Hence you have these collabs among large institutions to tap into funds such as from Horizon which are academic in nature and do not translate well into products.

Re: EuroLLM: LLM made in Europe built to support all 24 official EU languages

#140
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's REALLY much more important though if you want to be a part of the AI race and I've posted for years here with @euaccofficial is to make Europe a really extremely attractive place to start and run an AI business. Remove regulatory obstructions and give tax discounts for startups. Let them build a business first that can compete worldwide and once they make enough money (let's say $100M/y), then slowly start a…

> When you talk to most EU business owners, even in tech, the limiting factor isn't regulations. This being the #1 reason is such a tired trope. Okay, what is the limiting factor? Because when I talk to EU business owners (admittedly, very few) - they point to lack of big EU capital markets, which is directly downstream of the policy environment. And when I talk to top EU human capital, they all point to the lack of…

> I think it is a complete misreading to point to protectionism as the reason for Chinese success, but having a big unified domestic market for consumers along with massive saving rates and capital controls probably does help.

Capital controls are protectionist measures, but anyway, no.

> Okay, what is the limiting factor?

Let's look at which countries have a significant local software industry compared to population size.

- China

- US

- Korea

- You can argue for Japan and India but that's already starting to stretch.

- Yup, effectively no where else. Even in an "out of the way" place like Myanmar everyone uses Meta, with a nice little genocide to show for it. Sure, in Vietnam they use Zalo, and other places have a few other local players. But most of the famous US tech apps are dominant.

Is the EU the outlier here? No. Everywhere else US tech dominates. Meta, Netflix, Apple, Google, Uber, Spotify, Microsoft, Match Group, Paypal, Amazon, and on and on. They don't just dominate the EU, they dominate the world.

Except for the countries I named above, where at least some of the markets that US big tech competes in, instead have bigger local players. And even there, guess what?

Their market share is almost 1:1 linearly correlated to the degree of protectionism in those countries, all the way from China, then Korea, then India/Japan, and then everywhere else! Who woulda thought!

Why does Korea have much less US tech dominance than, say, Germany? Despite German companies theoretically having a big advantage: the German public is 100x more privacy conscious than the Korean one, and much less trusting of US companies.

I can tell you that it's not less regulations; Korea's GDPR is much more onerous than the EU's and so are investment regulations. On every single regulatory aspect, German software startups have it easier. But they were never protected. US tech was allowed to waltz in, dump their products - that's what they did, it's hilarious how now China "dumping" EVs and solar is suddenly an issue when it's exactly the strategy that US tech continues to this day; the AI companies are doing it right now! And the Korean companies were protected. Both by the rules burden, that local companies had to deal with too, along with intentional protectionism.

When it comes to solar and EVs, we all understand that a foreign country dumping their goods kills local industry. It's the exact same with software.

But then half of HN has millions on the bank exactly thanks to the above - this is where all those fat SV salaries have come from - so I do get the lack of desire to understand it.

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