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Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

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Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#131

Post by nucleogenesis »

sudhirb wrote: post #127
hoosieree wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of a system is what it does.

Some mild whataboutery: is the purpose of a cancer ward to fail to cure a large fraction of its patients[0]? https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpo...

“what it does” describes the actions taken - cancer wards work to treat cancer (which is their purpose). Outcomes of what they do isn’t relevant to the point.

The purpose of most social media companies is to manipulate people for financial and political gain which is what they do.

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#132

Post by [deleted] »

changadera wrote: post #82
zahirbmirza wrote: post #66

Let's be clear. It is not the actual smartphones that do this; machines are designed and programmed by humans. Companies can choose to use technology to manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes, and many do choose just that, often for financial gain.

"Guns don't kill people..."

[deleted]

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#133

Post by [deleted] »

bognition wrote: post #92
changadera wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Guns don't kill people..."

Not sure if you’re being coy or pushing the trope but you’re right guns don’t actually kill people. The bullets and blood loss tend to do that. That said, denying people access to guns does result in fewer gun related fatalities.

[deleted]

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#134

Post by latexr »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #108
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fall didn’t kill him, it was the landing.

The landing didn't kill him, it was the impact.

The impact didn’t kill him, it was the organ failure and blood loss.

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#135

Post by loloquwowndueo »

latexr wrote: post #134
abc123abc123 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The landing didn't kill him, it was the impact.

The impact didn’t kill him, it was the organ failure and blood loss.

Blood loss didn’t kill him, ischemia did?

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#136

Post by sudhirb »

nucleogenesis wrote: post #131
sudhirb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some mild whataboutery: is the purpose of a cancer ward to fail to cure a large fraction of its patients[0]? https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpo...

“what it does” describes the actions taken - cancer wards work to treat cancer (which is their purpose). Outcomes of what they do isn’t relevant to the point. The purpose of most social media companies is to manipulate people for financial and political gain which is what they do.

I think that "manipulate people for financial and political gain" is an outcome of what social media companies actually do - I was under the belief that in a general sense, they want to maximise the time people spend on their apps so that they can sell this attention to advertisers, independent of whether or not a given ad buyer wants to manipulate people.

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#137

Post by chownie »

plastic3169 wrote: post #129
r14c wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idk what part of "make society affordable for everyone and ensure that everyone has access to adequate care and social support" sounds like an easy fix.

That’s a good goal and I think we should aim for that regardless if it fixes addiction. I would not call it easy though. And would it be world without addicts? There are plenty of well connected rich social happy folks who can’t handle simple molecules. Environment is part of the usage pattern but it’s not the only thing. That’s the books point I gather.

You have taken the point someone else made and run somewhere else with it, so I will reiterate it.

> People (and rats) with adequate social lives and decent living conditions are able to consistently overcome addiction

I don't think it's about riches, or power, or having friends. It is purely about how many stressors you have to deal with, how often and with how much reprieve you have available. More money can give more reprieve, it usually means more stressors too.

The more subtle point I guess is that it is not how much you have, it is the shape of your life and how each day feels.

Use the example of far northern countries. People who live in dark countries drink more, and they drink even more the darker it gets. The modern era says that the answer should be more mindfulness, more cognitive behavioural therapy, I think GP is saying we should be giving them sunlight which is clearly what they actually need. Substitute sunlight for whatever thing your locale is currently not managing well.

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#138

Post by timschmidt »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #130
swiftcoder wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty extreme stance. If shooting inanimate clay pots is violence, wouldn't baseball also constitute violence?

When I search a definition I get three results: 1. Behavior or treatment in which physical force is exerted for the purpose of causing damage or injury. In the case of the shooting examples the idea is to destroy the clay pots or damage the target. Baseball isn't quite on that level. I'm not sure what a gun can be aimed at without intent to damage it. 2. Intense force or great power, as in natural phenomena. A gunsho…

> In the case of the shooting examples the idea is to destroy the clay pots or damage the target. Baseball isn't quite on that level. I'm not sure what a gun can be aimed at without intent to damage it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_Hunt

1984.

The point of clay target shooting isn't to destroy something, it's to build a skill and test yourself against an impartial system. That's what Duck Hunt captures and what made it popular. It's why shooting is a sport in the olympics.

Plenty of social reasons too, beyond hunting and self-defense, it can serve comradery and grounding. Some folks practice archery. Some folks fish. Some folks practice martial arts which they hope never to have to use in anger, but which they find calming, centering, and empowering.

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#139

Post by fsflover »

hoosieree wrote: post #116
zahirbmirza wrote: post #66

Let's be clear. It is not the actual smartphones that do this; machines are designed and programmed by humans. Companies can choose to use technology to manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes, and many do choose just that, often for financial gain.

The purpose of a system is what it does.

My smartphone doesn't manipulate or track me. There are no invasive push notifications or ads. Sent from my Librem 5.

Re: Smartphones manipulate our emotions and trigger our reflexes

#140

Post by plastic3169 »

chownie wrote: post #137
plastic3169 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good goal and I think we should aim for that regardless if it fixes addiction. I would not call it easy though. And would it be world without addicts? There are plenty of well connected rich social happy folks who can’t handle simple molecules. Environment is part of the usage pattern but it’s not the only thing. That’s the books point I gather.

You have taken the point someone else made and run somewhere else with it, so I will reiterate it. > People (and rats) with adequate social lives and decent living conditions are able to consistently overcome addiction I don't think it's about riches, or power, or having friends. It is purely about how many stressors you have to deal with, how often and with how much reprieve you have available. More money can give m…

I recommend the book and the new research. It reflects on the rat park study and makes what I think are good arguments that addiction is not a simple thing we can fix only by fixing the enviroment even though it is part of it. OP was asking for evidence so I thought I’d chip in with a modern source. There are no socities that have solved addiction. Obviously it is a gnarly problem.
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