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Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

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Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#581

Post by kaibee »

balder1991 wrote: post #500
overfeed wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically an LLM translating across languages will "light up" for the same concepts across languages Which is exactly what they are trained to do. Translation models wouldn't be functional if they are unable to correlate an input to specific outputs. That some hiddel-layer neurons fire for the same concept shouldn't come as a surprise, and is a basic feature required for the core functionality.

And if it is true that the language is just the last step after the answer is already conceptualized, why do models perform differently in different languages? If it was just a matter of language, they’d have the same answer but just with a broken grammar, no?

If you suddenly had to do all your mental math in base-7, do you think you'd be just as fast and accurate as you are at math in base-10? Is that because you don't have an internal world-model of mathematics? or is it because language and world-model are dependently linked?

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#583

Post by foogazi »

del82 wrote: post #569
ziofill wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. A metaphor I like is that the reason why humans say the night sky is beautiful is because they see that it is, whereas an LLM says it because it’s been said enough times in its training data.

I mean, I think the reason I would say the night sky is “beautiful” is because the meaning of the word for me is constructed from the experiences I’ve had in which I’ve heard other people use the word. So I’d agree that the night sky is “beautiful”, but not because I somehow have access to a deeper meaning of the word or the sky than an LLM does. As someone who (long ago) studied philosophy of mind and (Chomskian) li…

> I think the reason I would say the night sky is “beautiful” is because the meaning of the word for me is constructed from the experiences I’ve had in which I’ve heard other people use the word.

Ok but you don’t look at every night sky or every sunset and say “wow that’s beautiful”

There’s a quality to it - not because you heard someone say it but because you experience it

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#587

Post by padolsey »

Zacharias030 wrote: post #560

With all due respect, what does it say about us that „famous researcher voices his speculative opinion“ is an instant top 1 on hackernews?

I mean, HN is no stranger to cults of personality. Post a paulg essay that says something a teenager could write and it'll fly up to position 1.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#588

Post by xmichael909 »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #134
Imnimo wrote: post #68

>What takes the long amount of time and the way to think about it is that it’s a march of nines. Every single nine is a constant amount of work. Every single nine is the same amount of work. When you get a demo and something works 90% of the time, that’s just the first nine. Then you need the second nine, a third nine, a fourth nine, a fifth nine. While I was at Tesla for five years or so, we went through maybe three…

The interview which I've watched recently with Rich Sutton left me with the impression that AGI is not just a matter of adding more 9s. The interviewer had an idea that he took for granted: that to understand language you have to have a model of the world. LLMs seem to udnerstand language therefore they've trained a model of the world. Sutton rejected the premise immediately. He might be right in being skeptical here…

love the intentional use of udnerstand, brilliant!

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#590

Post by FloorEgg »

del82 wrote: post #569
ziofill wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. A metaphor I like is that the reason why humans say the night sky is beautiful is because they see that it is, whereas an LLM says it because it’s been said enough times in its training data.

I mean, I think the reason I would say the night sky is “beautiful” is because the meaning of the word for me is constructed from the experiences I’ve had in which I’ve heard other people use the word. So I’d agree that the night sky is “beautiful”, but not because I somehow have access to a deeper meaning of the word or the sky than an LLM does. As someone who (long ago) studied philosophy of mind and (Chomskian) li…

The more I learn about AI, biology and the brain, the more it seems to me that the difference between life and machines is just complexity.

People are just really really complex machines.

However there are clearly qualitative differences between the human mind and any machines we know of yet, and those qualitative differences are emergent properties, in the same way that a rabbit is qualitatively different than a stone or a chunk of wood.

I also think most of the recent AI experts/optimists underestimate how complex the mind is. I'm not at the cutting edge of how LLMs are being trained and architected, but the sense I have is we haven't modelled the diversity of connections in the mind or diversity of cell types. E.g. Transcriptomic diversity of cell types across the adult human brain (Siletti et al., 2023, Science)

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