Live data from Hacker News

Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

dwarkesh.com

541–550 of 1001 posts

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#541
post #36

It's funny how there's such a pervasive cynicism about AI in the developer community, yet everyone is still excited about vibe coding. Strange times...

What developer is excited about "vibe coding"? The only people excited about "vibe coding" are people who can't code.

I love vibe coding because it does the things I hate really well, like meeting test coverage requirements and writing doc comments.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#542
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interview which I've watched recently with Rich Sutton left me with the impression that AGI is not just a matter of adding more 9s. The interviewer had an idea that he took for granted: that to understand language you have to have a model of the world. LLMs seem to udnerstand language therefore they've trained a model of the world. Sutton rejected the premise immediately. He might be right in being skeptical here…

There is some evidence from Anthropic that LLMs do model the world. This paper[0] tracing their "thought" is fascinating. Basically an LLM translating across languages will "light up" (to use a rough fMRI equivalent) for the same concepts (e.g. bigness) across languages. It does have clusters of parameters that correlate with concepts, not just randomly "after X word tends to have Y word." Otherwise you would expect…

If it was modeling the world you’d expect “give me a picture of a glass filled to the brim” to actually do that. It’s inability to correctly and accurately combine concepts indicates it’s probably not building a model of the real world.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#543
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most likely because you'll be filthy reach from selling AGI Why? If AGI costs more than a human or operates slower than one, it may not be economical for people to buy it. By the time it becomes economical, competitors may have also cracked it reducing your ability to charge high margins on it.

Cost decreases with time Humans can work on a problem 8 hours a day? You can run inference 24/7

It decreases, but decreasing from $1 million per token to $0.9 million per token after a year is still a decrease, but it still is not viable. Paying an AGI a $100 billion dollars for it to work 24/7 for a year is worse than hiring 10 people for $30k a year to work shifts to do the same work 24/7.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This world model talk is interesting, and Yann Lecunn has broached on the same topic, but the fact is there are video diffusion models that are quite good at representing the "video world" and even counterfactually and temporally coherently generating a representation of that "world" under different perturbations. In fact you can go to a SOTA LLM today, and it will do quite well at predicting the outcomes of basic co…

Photons hit a human eye and then the human came up with language to describe that and then encoded the language into the LLM. The LLM can capture some of this relationship, but the LLM is not sensing actual photons, nor experiencing actual light cone stimulation, nor generating thoughts. Its "world model" is several degrees removed from the real world. So whatever fragment of a model it gains through learning to comp…

> Its "world model" is several degrees removed from the real world.

Like insects that weave tokens

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This world model talk is interesting, and Yann Lecunn has broached on the same topic, but the fact is there are video diffusion models that are quite good at representing the "video world" and even counterfactually and temporally coherently generating a representation of that "world" under different perturbations. In fact you can go to a SOTA LLM today, and it will do quite well at predicting the outcomes of basic co…

Photons hit a human eye and then the human came up with language to describe that and then encoded the language into the LLM. The LLM can capture some of this relationship, but the LLM is not sensing actual photons, nor experiencing actual light cone stimulation, nor generating thoughts. Its "world model" is several degrees removed from the real world. So whatever fragment of a model it gains through learning to comp…

I agree with this. A metaphor I like is that the reason why humans say the night sky is beautiful is because they see that it is, whereas an LLM says it because it’s been said enough times in its training data.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#546
post #513
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fusion has been 30 years away since the 50s or 60s. I don't think I will see either AGI or commercial fusion in my lifetime.

Helion says it's 3 years away which is progress from saying it's 30 years away. I remain a bit skeptical though. ( https://www.innovationnewsnetwork.com/helion-breaks-ground-a... )

That would be amazing but I'm not holding my breath.

Re: Andrej Karpathy – It will take a decade to work through the issues with agents

#547
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some evidence from Anthropic that LLMs do model the world. This paper[0] tracing their "thought" is fascinating. Basically an LLM translating across languages will "light up" (to use a rough fMRI equivalent) for the same concepts (e.g. bigness) across languages. It does have clusters of parameters that correlate with concepts, not just randomly "after X word tends to have Y word." Otherwise you would expect…

How large is a lion? Learning the size of objects using pure text analysis requires significant gymnastics. Vision demonstrates physical size more easily. Multimodal learning is important. Full stop. Purely textual learning is not sample efficient for world modeling and the optimization can get stuck in local optima that are easily escaped through multimodal evidence. ("How large are lions? inducing distributions ove…

> How large is a lion?

Twice of half of its size.

Post reply on HN