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How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

nytimes.com

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Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#351

Post by bahama_mama »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #25
Insanity wrote: post #2

As a European who moved to Canada and spends a fair amount of time in the States, one thing that really surprised me is how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones. Food was a bit of a concern before moving, but I didn't know just how frustrating it would be. Even something as simple as Yogurt is usually insanely sweet / sugary compared to European variants. Ingredients that are banned…

My weekly routine now consists of going to local farmer's market and buying stuff from farms I trust. Going to local butchers to get grass fed, naturally raised meats. Then off to the local grocery store to get whatever else I need that week for the stuff I prepare at home. If you want to eat healthy, you certainly can, but takes quite a bit of effort and some additional cost. Processed and ultraprocessed food has ju…

> My weekly routine now consists of going to local farmer's market and buying stuff from farms I trust.

This is interesting. What gives you extra trust when buying from this person? How confident are you in what conditions their foods are grown. In a nutshell, I agree that food may feel and seem fresher because it is harvested closer to their prime time, but it says nothing about safety.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#352

Post by bahama_mama »

scotty79 wrote: post #318
nradov wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canned and frozen vegetables are also non-perishable. While some extremely poor people lack a working freezer or storage space, most consumers can easily use these options.

I think canned food can already be considered ultra-processed if it contains any preservatives.

Canned food such as canned tomatoes or canned pickles (if pickled with vinegar/salt/spices) is not considered ultra-processed food. It's considered processed food and can be considered as part of a healthy diet. Well, same could be said about UPF -- your health is unlikely to detoriate long term if you have 1 frozen meal per week. It's just quantity that matters and lack of moderation.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#353

Post by thatfrenchguy »

volkl48 wrote: post #130
Jensson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when I visited USA I was shocked to find lots of larger "grocery stores" didn't even stock the basics. In Europe that isn't a thing, everything larger than a regular room has fresh vegetables and meat and other staples, even in immigrant areas. Sure it might be possible to find that in USA as well, but its so much harder as not every store has it.

Were you actually visiting what Americans would consider a grocery store? I'm not saying this is specifically the case for you, but it is remarkably common for visitors from other parts of the world to visit, go into what we consider a "convenience store", and then be confused that there's basically nothing in terms of actual groceries in there, with probably 80%+ of the "consumable" shelving devoted to snack/"junk"…

Yeah, I mean, any French person who goes to a Safeway or a Walmart will be shocked to see what the offerings are.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#354

Post by thatfrenchguy »

asdff wrote: post #245
OJFord wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP, but I can offer: real cheese (not squares of individually wrapped plastic, nor grated and mixed with whatever to prevent caking), Walmart.

Real cheese is not rare. It is a little pricey though. Usually north of $15 a lb.

at Safeway or Walmart? Absolutely not what most europeans would consider "real cheese"

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#355

Post by thatfrenchguy »

vel0city wrote: post #211
OJFord wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP, but I can offer: real cheese (not squares of individually wrapped plastic, nor grated and mixed with whatever to prevent caking), Walmart.

What? Just about every Walmart with a grocery I've been to sells blocks of cheese. These are all available at multiple Walmarts around me. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Block-Sharp-Cheddar-C... https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Low-Moisture-Part-Ski... https://www.walmart.com/ip/Frigo-Parmesan-Cheese-Wedge-5-oz-... https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tillamook-Medium-Cheddar-Cheese-B... https://www.walmart.com/i…

Yeah, no European is going to tell you this is "real cheese"

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#356

Post by ninalanyon »

tptacek wrote: post #345
ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For example: yogurt becomes a UPF simply by dint of adding carrageenan What the hell are you doing putting crap like that in your yogurt? Love, Europe

European yogurts are also stabilized with carrageenan. Also: you irradiate your dairy to the point where it's shelf stable, so you're nobody to talk. At least our milk doesn't glow in the dark.

> European yogurts are also stabilized with carrageenan.

Not in my part of Europe! There are only two ingredients in plain yoghurt here in Norway: milk and a bacterial culture. Flavoured yoghurts typically add fruit puree and sugar.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#357

Post by lithocarpus »

UncleMeat wrote: post #325
lithocarpus wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saturated fat is not processed food and is not unhealthy. It is the most common kind of natural fat in the human diet for most people through most of history.

Different human populations had quite different diets in the past. A huge error that the paleo diet promoters make is claiming that there is a single diet shared across all humanity for most of human history.

I agree. That's why I said "most common" for "most people".

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#358

Post by tedunangst »

tptacek wrote: post #343
tedunangst wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for transglutiminase used to put the pink slime back together? This is the first I'm hearing it. I thought they just stirred it into the ground beef.

Stuff like this: https://www.glutenfreesociety.org/meat-glue-the-hidden-ingre...

That article is very confused. They're saying that transglutaminase, street name meat glue, extracted from bacteria is literally the same thing as pink slime. Lean finely textured beef, street name pink slime, comes from cows. However processed, it's still beef. You can't squeeze it out of bacteria.

Reading the Wikipedia articles it's pretty clear these are different things, even if both are added to beef in some way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transglutaminase

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#359

Post by Amezarak »

tptacek wrote: post #342
Amezarak wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all potato chips are UPF. Even the ones that aren’t so bad would be much more expensive if they had to be fried in olive oil or lard instead of UPF ingredients like canola oil.

100% of potato chips are bad for you. 0% of unsweetened yogurts are bad for you. You're defending a scheme that labels some of those yogurts as unhealthy, and some of the potato chips as healthy. Extremely simple issue.

I’m skeptical that thinly sliced potatoes crisped in olive oil are bad for you.

I don’t believe unsweetened yogurt is bad either, although some people would say so because of the saturated fat content. Certainly very few people are going to eat any real amount of unsweetened yogurt, except perhaps as a dip.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#360

Post by Amezarak »

UncleMeat wrote: post #334
Amezarak wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all potato chips are UPF. Even the ones that aren’t so bad would be much more expensive if they had to be fried in olive oil or lard instead of UPF ingredients like canola oil.

It is weird to me that the boundary between seed oil panic and upf panic appears to be so fuzzy. The nova classification has canola oil as Group 2, by the way.

Canola oil:

- is made from a plant historically considered inedible

- has a very high input:output ratio

- often has extensive processing steps that include industrial solvents like hexane and deodorization steps to make the end product tolerable

If that’s not a UPF then I would not regard that definition as useful.

Personally I don’t hold to any particular “seed oil” claims, but vegetable oils are a major ingredient in almost all UPFs, are very calorie dense, and canola/soybean oil have risen from near-zero to be one of if not the largest calorie source for Westerners in just the past few decades; canola oil was not even consumed before the 1970s. They would certainly be one of my main suspects in the obesity epidemic.

It’s certainly true to talk about how bad chips are we’re talking about what makes them so high calorie is the oil.

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