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How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

nytimes.com

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Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#321

Post by audunw »

nradov wrote: post #12
Insanity wrote: post #2

As a European who moved to Canada and spends a fair amount of time in the States, one thing that really surprised me is how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones. Food was a bit of a concern before moving, but I didn't know just how frustrating it would be. Even something as simple as Yogurt is usually insanely sweet / sugary compared to European variants. Ingredients that are banned…

Every grocery store where I've shopped has yogurt with no added sugar. It's right there on the shelf, just look at the label. Antibiotic resistance is a concern but the FDA has made progress in that area. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicr... The EU bans routine antibiotic use for promoting animal growth but antibiotics are still widely used for other purposes. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/n…

It’s not just about sugar/no-sugar. It’s about the amount of sugar. Sometimes I want sweetened yoghurt, maybe as a treat. Especially for the kids. Getting something with a reasonable amount of sugar in reasonable portions is the problem.

When you default to an insanely high amount of sugar in very big portion you train people to expect that sweetness in their treats. Hell, people end up expecting more sweetness in their regular meals. I honestly think that’s a bigger problem than the lack of entirely sugar free options.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#322

Post by Jensson »

volkl48 wrote: post #130
Jensson wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when I visited USA I was shocked to find lots of larger "grocery stores" didn't even stock the basics. In Europe that isn't a thing, everything larger than a regular room has fresh vegetables and meat and other staples, even in immigrant areas. Sure it might be possible to find that in USA as well, but its so much harder as not every store has it.

Were you actually visiting what Americans would consider a grocery store? I'm not saying this is specifically the case for you, but it is remarkably common for visitors from other parts of the world to visit, go into what we consider a "convenience store", and then be confused that there's basically nothing in terms of actual groceries in there, with probably 80%+ of the "consumable" shelving devoted to snack/"junk"…

> I'm not saying this is specifically the case for you, but it is remarkably common for visitors from other parts of the world to visit, go into what we consider a "convenience store", and then be confused that there's basically nothing in terms of actual groceries in there, with probably 80%+ of the "consumable" shelving devoted to snack/"junk" items.

But that is the problem isn't it? That you have to drive so far and look on a map to find a grocery store while in Europe you can just walk for 5 minutes and find one where you can buy fresh produce. So in Europe there are these convenient grocery stores that stocks fresh produce and so on, USA not having those is what we talked about.

So sure if you define "grocery store" as a store that sells fresh produce you are right, but then there are very few grocery stores in USA which is still the problem we talked about. It is so much easier and faster to get these wares in Europe than in USA.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#323

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

tptacek wrote: post #93

This all has very big "uncured bacon" energy to me (if you didn't already know: there's no such thing; vendors of uncured bacon performatively drive the same chemical nitrite reaction using vegetable extracts). For example: yogurt becomes a UPF simply by dint of adding carrageenan, which is on the order of calling dashi a UPF because of the kombu. It's not that there isn't a very legitimate issue underneath all this:…

>For example: yogurt becomes a UPF simply by dint of adding carrageenan

What the hell are you doing putting crap like that in your yogurt?

Love, Europe

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#324

Post by maxerickson »

Scarblac wrote: post #197
supportengineer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This begs the question - is it reasonable for the consumer to put in a little work - reading labels and doing research outside of the grocery store? I find that you do the research once, and then you know what to buy next time.

Well, the supermarkets know know what the effect of their product placement is. If they change it, the customer buys different things, on average. So, we can say it's reasonable for people to do some research and pick the yoghurt they consider best, but we know most people don't do that. And that supermarkets prefer to give the best spots to sugary yoghurts. What's wrong with doing the research once for the average p…

Can we believe that consumers have any agency at all?

Like maybe the reason there are 200 varieties of single serve cups is that people like them.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#325

Post by UncleMeat »

lithocarpus wrote: post #308
secstate wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, UPF feels like a food industry plant word to make legislation a hot mess full of holes. Just regulate added sugar and saturated/trans fats and be done with it.

Saturated fat is not processed food and is not unhealthy. It is the most common kind of natural fat in the human diet for most people through most of history.

Different human populations had quite different diets in the past. A huge error that the paleo diet promoters make is claiming that there is a single diet shared across all humanity for most of human history.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#326

Post by UncleMeat »

Amezarak wrote: post #316
tptacek wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that you're arguing for something far outside of the mainstream, but the "UPF" framing makes it hard to tell; it sounds at first like you're saying we should stop subsidizing Takis (fair enough!) but in reality you're also saying all the yogurt needs to be reformulated (not gonna happen). I'm not trying to engage with your theory of health; I'm trying to establish that the UPF thing has Prop 65 vibes. The…

OK, so how do you propose we reduce consumption of "packaged hyperpalatable low-satiety foods"? I thought making them practically unviable was a good route to take. > but in reality you're also saying all the yogurt needs to be reformulated (not gonna happen). It's not "all yogurt" and nobody asked whether we should reformulate it the first time.

But bans on UPF wouldn't actually do that. Potato chips aren't ultraprocessed, but they sure seem like hyperpalatable low-satiety foods. Pastrami is ultraprocessed but doesn't seem like it is any more hyperpalatable or low-satiety than roast beef.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#327

Post by Amezarak »

UncleMeat wrote: post #326
Amezarak wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so how do you propose we reduce consumption of "packaged hyperpalatable low-satiety foods"? I thought making them practically unviable was a good route to take. > but in reality you're also saying all the yogurt needs to be reformulated (not gonna happen). It's not "all yogurt" and nobody asked whether we should reformulate it the first time.

But bans on UPF wouldn't actually do that. Potato chips aren't ultraprocessed, but they sure seem like hyperpalatable low-satiety foods. Pastrami is ultraprocessed but doesn't seem like it is any more hyperpalatable or low-satiety than roast beef.

Almost all potato chips are UPF. Even the ones that aren’t so bad would be much more expensive if they had to be fried in olive oil or lard instead of UPF ingredients like canola oil.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#328

Post by The_President »

jeffbee wrote: post #36

I just opened up www dot amazon dot com and filled my cart with $50 worth of food that will be delivered to my door in a few hours: rice, potatoes, farro, beans, peppers, ginger, onions, garlic frozen peas, frozen carrots, plain low-fat yogurt, chicken thighs, and good bread. I don't want to hear anyone telling me that American capitalism has robbed us of real food. If anything, American capitalism has heaped upon us…

[dead]

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#329

Post by nradov »

audunw wrote: post #321
nradov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every grocery store where I've shopped has yogurt with no added sugar. It's right there on the shelf, just look at the label. Antibiotic resistance is a concern but the FDA has made progress in that area. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/safety-health/antimicr... The EU bans routine antibiotic use for promoting animal growth but antibiotics are still widely used for other purposes. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/n…

It’s not just about sugar/no-sugar. It’s about the amount of sugar. Sometimes I want sweetened yoghurt, maybe as a treat. Especially for the kids. Getting something with a reasonable amount of sugar in reasonable portions is the problem. When you default to an insanely high amount of sugar in very big portion you train people to expect that sweetness in their treats. Hell, people end up expecting more sweetness in th…

You can buy unsweetened yogurt and add whatever amount of sugar you want. Follow me for more recipes.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#330

Post by rkomorn »

nradov wrote: post #329
audunw wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just about sugar/no-sugar. It’s about the amount of sugar. Sometimes I want sweetened yoghurt, maybe as a treat. Especially for the kids. Getting something with a reasonable amount of sugar in reasonable portions is the problem. When you default to an insanely high amount of sugar in very big portion you train people to expect that sweetness in their treats. Hell, people end up expecting more sweetness in th…

You can buy unsweetened yogurt and add whatever amount of sugar you want. Follow me for more recipes.

> Follow me for more recipes.

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