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How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

nytimes.com

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Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#311

Post by parineum »

pirates wrote: post #236
parineum wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tomatoes are, imo, the prime example and possibly the only one of popular produce, of bland produce in the US. I think it's a combination of having them year-round (they are picked before they ripen for shipping) and the emphasis on color/look being very high. A good tomato tastes much better than most store bought to the point I didn't know I liked tomatoes until I had a garden grown one. Now I eat store bought as w…

Really? I grow blueberries, strawberries, several cultivars of hot/sweet peppers, zucchini, yellow squash, tomatoes, garlic, bush beans, and several different herbs, and without fail ALL of them taste way better than the store bought version. That isn’t to say the store versions are always bad, but you know the home grown ones every single time.

Tomatoes are different though. I barely knew what a tomato tasted like. I didn't like them because they were tasteless (when combined with sny other food) and slimy.

It isn't that homegrown tomatoes just taste better, they actually have taste.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#312

Post by kulahan »

t-writescode wrote: post #273
kulahan wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. A garden is a healthy and productive way to spend your free time. If you have land, EVERYONE should be growing some food. What are you suggesting they do instead? Scroll tiktok? >and extreme hours This is not the problem in rural communities.

The most famously true thing about rural areas is that they’re all exactly the same and the people in them experience identical struggles.

Ah, so that’s how you know they’re all short on time

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#313

Post by herbst »

asdff wrote: post #260
tptacek wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some yogurt formulations will separate without it.

Yeah you get whey sure. Not an issue either dump it out or stir it.

Everything you had to shake or stir in the past now contains carageen. Milk based drinks, cream, cream salads, even ice cream contains it usually and often undeclared

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#314

Post by Yizahi »

rolisz wrote: post #97
Yizahi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that to a European citizen this is a bit unexpected. In Europe, in all countries, you can find roughly the same level of "safeness" of food across all tiers of stores. Go to a cheapest one and the most expensive one, and the yogurt, tomatoes or meat would be approximately the same quality and have the same nutritional components. The only difference would be that expensive store would additionally carr…

Romanian here: the tomato quality varies by a lot. All stores have crappy "plastic" tasting tomatoes. It's not that easy to find really good tomatoes (in summer you can find them at local markets, in winter... Fancy imports I guess).

"Plastic" tomatoes has nothing to do with their nutritional score or inclusion of dangerous compounds. It's just a cheaper tomato variety with thicker skin and most likely harvested early, to be conditioned on the shelf. So these so called "plastic" tomatoes, or some fancy expensive ones have exact same level of harmful chemicals in EU - none at all. That was my point, that this safety level is accessible to poor and rich, regardless of their money.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#315

Post by Yizahi »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #153
Yizahi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that to a European citizen this is a bit unexpected. In Europe, in all countries, you can find roughly the same level of "safeness" of food across all tiers of stores. Go to a cheapest one and the most expensive one, and the yogurt, tomatoes or meat would be approximately the same quality and have the same nutritional components. The only difference would be that expensive store would additionally carr…

>But those steak cuts would be subject to the same standards as a cheap chicken meat in the cheap store. Speaking also as an European, not they would not. There's a pretty big difference in the quality of the meant across the board between shops and brands(suppliers) of meat depending how the animals were raised, fed and cared for. Here in Austria there's been plenty of scandals covering the poor conditions of animal…

You are correct, but the difference is that companies doing that in Europe are breaking the law if they treat cattle with banned compounds, while in USA farmers do this legally and at scale. This is why in this particular case I believe that generalizing is reasonable, because the fundamental approach differs so much.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#316

Post by Amezarak »

tptacek wrote: post #277
Amezarak wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bailey is all this stuff about how we need to rid the food chain of stabilizers and glutamates and nitrates and preservatives because "bizarre lab concoctions" endanger people. In my case, I'm arguing that doing away with these things, regardless of any health effects they may have, has the effect of eliminating the entire class of foods you have a problem with. > "UPF-free" logos for cane-sugar-sweetened bever…

My point is that you're arguing for something far outside of the mainstream, but the "UPF" framing makes it hard to tell; it sounds at first like you're saying we should stop subsidizing Takis (fair enough!) but in reality you're also saying all the yogurt needs to be reformulated (not gonna happen). I'm not trying to engage with your theory of health; I'm trying to establish that the UPF thing has Prop 65 vibes. The…

OK, so how do you propose we reduce consumption of "packaged hyperpalatable low-satiety foods"?

I thought making them practically unviable was a good route to take.

> but in reality you're also saying all the yogurt needs to be reformulated (not gonna happen).

It's not "all yogurt" and nobody asked whether we should reformulate it the first time.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#317

Post by scotty79 »

Do you know of any research showing that ultra-processed food in general is bad?

The only thing I found was comparing ultra-processed food with other food with the same nutritional value that concluded that people get fatter on UPF because they eat more of it.

The only conclusion I could draw from it is that UPF is just tastier. (or hyper palatable if you want to make it sound more sinister)

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#318

Post by scotty79 »

nradov wrote: post #17
pchristensen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget non-perishable. If you're already having a hard time affording groceries, it really hurts to throw away wilted veggies or moldy fruit.

Canned and frozen vegetables are also non-perishable. While some extremely poor people lack a working freezer or storage space, most consumers can easily use these options.

I think canned food can already be considered ultra-processed if it contains any preservatives.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#319

Post by scotty79 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #231
nradov wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always skeptical when someone posts that little nugget about shoes. Maybe it used to be true but I don't think it still applies in the era of high-quality mass manufacturing. I have worn shoes that cost $50 to well over $200 and if anything the more expensive shoes tend to fall apart faster. Walmart has plenty of shoes and work boots for about $50 that will last more than 6 months unless you really abuse them. Th…

For anyone who doesn't know, the literal words are from a book, but its meaning is metaphorical and isn't limited to boots. The point is still that it's expensive to be poor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory Just taking a second to think about this, since we're in the context of groceries, here's another example: the bigger box of cereal will be cheaper per pound and last longer, but you have to pay more up…

No better way to get your idea across than illustrate it with a lie, I guess.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#320

Post by scotty79 »

asdff wrote: post #253
12345hn6789 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding full fat, no sugar added yogurt is quite easy, and completely subjectively up to taste. You may make your own yogurt yes. But perhaps the flavor difference you are experiencing is due to the intensive labor you spent time to produce said yogurt. - https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/product/painterland-sisters... - https://www.hy-vee.com/aisles-online/p/2284457/Siggis-4-Milk... - https://www.jewelosco.com/shop/s…

Intensive labor? It is one of the easiest things to do. Here is my process step by step: 1) 32oz of whole milk into a pot, set burner to 6, set a 7 min timer (whats optimal for my burners), walk away. 2) Come back, check temp with thermometer, should be between 180°-190°f. Shut off burner. Set 10 min timer. Go do something else. 3) Come back, put burner on low simmer, set 20 min timer, do something else. 4) Come back…

Compare this to the work and planning involved with peeling aluminum lid from a plastic cup to eat exactly the amount of yoghurt that you want to eat at the time.
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