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German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

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Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#71
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What metrics are you using to label it as non-competitive?

Cheap russian gas is gone, so now all industry sectors (not only cars) are not as competetive as before. They are now downsizing, etc in order to save themselves.

Do you know that German car manufacturers have factories worldwide (except Porsche)? And they are still quite profitable.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#72
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheap russian gas is gone, so now all industry sectors (not only cars) are not as competetive as before. They are now downsizing, etc in order to save themselves.

Do you know that German car manufacturers have factories worldwide (except Porsche)? And they are still quite profitable.

Sure but we are talking about german industrial output, and one of the main reasons for problems here is the absence of the cheap energy that was available until the russian invasion of ukraine.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#73
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will ask the EU to remove environmental protections like the end of new gas / diesel cars by 2035.

Germany (and the EU generally) import 98% of their oil-derived products.. Before sanctions the leading import source was Russia. EVs could have helped a lot more as China has demonstrated but people like the brum-brum noise and all the right-wing parties with mysterious ties to Russia and other fossil fuel producers didn't think they'd work for some reason.

Beyond the points you made about petrol cars, the price is also a big factor.

In the EU, car companies only sell large (and very expensive) SUVs.

If you want to have a fully electric car on top of that, the bill will be far too high for most people.

This is also why the EU is seeing a switch where people can't buy their cars anymore and have to lease them or hope their employer will do it for them as part of a company car package.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#76
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a European with an Audi car, been looking at switching to EV and I can't lie and say BYD doesn't look like more value for the money than the Audi alternatives, so doesn't really surprise me.

And that's despite the EU tariffs on Chinese manufacturers.

Then again, Chinese car companies are price dumping on purpose to kill the competition.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#77
A story from a german town: We have an 200 year old bridge, which can't be used anymore. It's a small bridge only about 100m long and 5m high i would guess. The state owned railroad wants to replace it. Everybody agrees. Local people are happy. They simple want to build the new one right next to the old one and then take the old one down. But still in spite of everybody agreeing it took 20 years!! to get the permit. They have finally started construction 5 years ago and the costs have doubled multiple times and are now in the hundreds of millions. They say that hopefully in another 5 years from now they might be finished with construction. For all those years the locals have to take a long detour because the bridge can't be used. I have recently read how in china they finished the tallest bridge of the world in a 3 year construction and the cost was less than our little bridge here. After hearing about this i realized how doomed we are. We have regulated our selfs into a total standstill. I can understand if we are maybe 10-30% slower due to better environmental protection, but if me are slower and more expensive by a factor 10, then we are just not competitive at all. This reads like satire but it is actually happening.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#78
post #49
post #36

Cutting cheap Russian gas was a suicidal move for European manufacturing (and households).

Green is likely sponsored by Putin as a way of keeping Europe away from Nuclear and any other viable alternatives to Russian gas. (proof: Former German chancellor on board with Russian energy companies.) Not investing enough in Nuclear and solar is Germany’s biggest mistake.

Schröder was a social democrat and personal friend of Putin. He managed to score a deal and secure his own future..

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#79

Why is output falling? Are there other countries taking the market share? Or is there more to it?

They seppukued by walking away from cheap RU gas.

Cheap RU gas isn't just power, it's cheap industrial feedstock/inputs. Renewable/nuclear does not replace this. So all the wank about their energy policy is distraction. TLDR:

Competitive Germany industry needs cheap RU gas.

Healthy German economy with 40% trade GDP needs US + PRC, then RoW markets.

PRC market going away.

Germany "chose" (maybe pressured) into expensive US gas to keep US market, because doesn't matter manufacturing cost if you lose biggest future market, and can't manufacture without reliable source of gas. The lockin is DE gets US gas and US market access.

But Germany with expensive US gas = will eventually lose competitiveness in most other markets, so sectors will crater. Double whammy of other (PRC) being more competitive and DE making it self even less competitive.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#80
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasons I can think of (as a German) from the top of my head: - Crumbling infrastructure - Decades of missing investments in education and the public sector - no digitization - Unwillingness to move away from ICE vehicles - Slow internet access and slow build out of fiber network - Killing future industries (solar, battery ...) by cutting funding/subsidies early - low wages in European comparison

What makes German cars uncompetitive in the world market are actually high production costs. Which is due to high energy, labour cost and social tax. Combined with a lack of innovation. This is impossible to fix with a state subsidy.

> This is impossible to fix with a state subsidy.

Is it? Because that's definitely how China is doing it:

https://rhg.com/research/chinas-subsidies-are-fueling-involu...

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