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German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

ft.com

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Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#31

Post by diggan »

netsharc wrote: post #23
luxurytent wrote: post #10

Why is output falling? Are there other countries taking the market share? Or is there more to it?

Article says: > But a profit warning by German carmaker BMW late on Tuesday was the latest reminder of the industry’s structural challenges as it struggles with the transition to battery cars, weak sales in China and US import duties. My gut feeling is that the Chinese are now buying locally made EVs. Other nations are buying Chinese made EVs. Except the Americans, who can't afford anything without paying extra money…

I'm a European with an Audi car, been looking at switching to EV and I can't lie and say BYD doesn't look like more value for the money than the Audi alternatives, so doesn't really surprise me.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#32

Post by h4kor »

luxurytent wrote: post #10

Why is output falling? Are there other countries taking the market share? Or is there more to it?

Reasons I can think of (as a German) from the top of my head:

- Crumbling infrastructure

- Decades of missing investments in education and the public sector

- no digitization

- Unwillingness to move away from ICE vehicles

- Slow internet access and slow build out of fiber network

- Killing future industries (solar, battery ...) by cutting funding/subsidies early

- low wages in European comparison

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#33

Post by wongarsu »

luxurytent wrote: post #10

Why is output falling? Are there other countries taking the market share? Or is there more to it?

Like many traditional car makers they are struggling with the EV question. Presumably they want to switch to EVs, but in a company built on building ICE vehicles that comes with a lot of resistance from inside the company.

All things considered they aren't doing too bad, both Volkswagen and BMW are in the global top 7 EV brands by sales. But BYD is far ahead of everyone else, selling nearly an order of magnitude more EVs than any German brand. Which hurts Germany especially since they used to sell a lot of cars in China, BYD's home turf

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#34

Post by 4gotunameagain »

bootsmann wrote: post #29
4gotunameagain wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> but after multiple warnings and casus belli about Ukraine not flirting with NATO Putin invaded in 2014 after Ukraine deposed of their dictator over his failure to commit to EU alignment, the Nato stuff is a post-hoc excuse developed by the Russian government. This isn't about Nato it's about Putin being afraid of having working democracies next door.

Ukraine a working democracy ? Before the war it was one of the most corrupt countries in the European continent.

And by applying just a tiny bit of realism, is it feasible for a country right next to a colossal power to have independence ? Do all the small countries south of the US enjoy independence ?

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#35

Post by wongarsu »

raverbashing wrote: post #19
LunaSea wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will ask the EU to remove environmental protections like the end of new gas / diesel cars by 2035.

Yeah meanwhile China installs record breaking amounts of Solar and Nuclear

and record breaking amounts of coal, to be fair. Their energy mix doesn't look all that great

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#37

Post by maerch »

niffydroid wrote: post #25

But also their cars can cost too much. They're doing a lot of sharing with Ford. Take for example the T7 platform. Why pay VW prices for a Ford?

Exactly this. I thought about getting a T7, but the price is just ridiculous. And it’s not even like you’re paying for quality, there are so many complaints about both minor and major issues.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#38

Post by fabian2k »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #22
ifwinterco wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the industrial economy was based on cheap pipeline gas from Russia and there have been some issues with that policy recently

[flagged]

Even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that Ukraine "was flirting with NATO". Why does that justify an invasion? Why do you think Ukraine or NATO or the US are at fault here?

Accepting that trying to get closer to NATO justifies this invasion, usually with the term "legitimate Russian security interests" denies Ukrainian sovereignty. Russia does not have the right to impose its will on its neighbours.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#39

Post by JumpCrisscross »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #34
bootsmann wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but after multiple warnings and casus belli about Ukraine not flirting with NATO Putin invaded in 2014 after Ukraine deposed of their dictator over his failure to commit to EU alignment, the Nato stuff is a post-hoc excuse developed by the Russian government. This isn't about Nato it's about Putin being afraid of having working democracies next door.

Ukraine a working democracy ? Before the war it was one of the most corrupt countries in the European continent. And by applying just a tiny bit of realism, is it feasible for a country right next to a colossal power to have independence ? Do all the small countries south of the US enjoy independence ?

> Ukraine a working democracy ?

Straw man.

Moscow is ruled by idiots. The war in Ukraine was perhaps the largest own goal of the millennium, ahead of Brexit and possibly right behind—worst case—the Iraq War.

> is it feasible for a country right next to a colossal power to have independence ?

Yes. Literally how alliances have worked since the Bronze Age.

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