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German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

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Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#61

Post by 4gotunameagain »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39
4gotunameagain wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine a working democracy ? Before the war it was one of the most corrupt countries in the European continent. And by applying just a tiny bit of realism, is it feasible for a country right next to a colossal power to have independence ? Do all the small countries south of the US enjoy independence ?

> Ukraine a working democracy ? Straw man. Moscow is ruled by idiots. The war in Ukraine was perhaps the largest own goal of the millennium, ahead of Brexit and possibly right behind—worst case—the Iraq War. > is it feasible for a country right next to a colossal power to have independence ? Yes. Literally how alliances have worked since the Bronze Age.

> Straw man.

Nope. Challenge to presuppositions. The argument would be valid only if Ukraine was a threat of a "working democracy"

> Yes. Literally how alliances have worked since the Bronze Age.

Since we are now past the Bronze age could you give me a contemporary example of a small country close to the US that is practically independent and is not meddled with ?

> Moscow is ruled by idiots.

Putin might be a power hungry lunatic — like most leaders — but there is one thing that he certainly isn't, an idiot. Neither is Lavrov.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#62

Post by jansan »

zerof1l wrote: post #52

Germany desperately needs a wake-up call in the form of recession. German car industry has been non-competitive for multiple years now. Instead of letting it fail, the government kept on flushing money down the toilet and prolonging the inevitable. For a business, there's no incentive anymore to choose Germany over other EU countries. Cheap energy is gone. Germany is literally collapsing under its own weight: endless…

What metrics are you using to label it as non-competitive?

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#63

Post by wewxjfq »

dzink wrote: post #49
kome wrote: post #36

Cutting cheap Russian gas was a suicidal move for European manufacturing (and households).

Green is likely sponsored by Putin as a way of keeping Europe away from Nuclear and any other viable alternatives to Russian gas. (proof: Former German chancellor on board with Russian energy companies.) Not investing enough in Nuclear and solar is Germany’s biggest mistake.

There was de facto no investment into nuclear energy across all countries since the early 80s and it's beyond tiring to see online commenters adamantly trying to blame that on a scheming cabal of Green politicians, when Green parties never got beyond 10% of the vote in the elections. Yes, Germany prohibited the ban of new reactors in the earyl 2000s, but the truth is no one wanted to build them anyway and hadn't for a long time. Under the Schröder government, only two or three reactors were shut down and they were the oldest, had a meager output and weren't even profitable anymore. And the only way Russia influenced that was by mishandling Chernobyl. It's laughable to claim a country whose only high-technology export is nuclear technology is pushing others to abandon it.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#64

Post by 4gotunameagain »

fabian2k wrote: post #38
4gotunameagain wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that Ukraine "was flirting with NATO". Why does that justify an invasion? Why do you think Ukraine or NATO or the US are at fault here? Accepting that trying to get closer to NATO justifies this invasion, usually with the term "legitimate Russian security interests" denies Ukrainian sovereignty. Russia does not have the right to impose its will on its neighbours.

> Even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that Ukraine "was flirting with NATO". Why does that justify an invasion? Why do you think Ukraine or NATO or the US are at fault here?

Read up on Cuban missile crisis, it might provide some context.

No superpower has the right to impose its will on its neighbours, yet here we are : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#65

Post by kome »

alecco wrote: post #47

Most of it caused by "Mama Merkel": * She inherited a booming economy with very good reforms and plenty of budget surplus * Let infrastructure to rot * Energy production cratered and shifted to Russian gas dependency (high profile politicians related) showering Putin with billions every year * Then tricking Puting to a peace agreement to quietly "rearm" Ukraine to prepare for war ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk…

"TBF, at the time, I also fell to the propaganda of Merkel being the best and smartest stateswoman ever."

to be honest, this is what enrages me. I feel like I was in a madhouse; the mass media were pushing an image of Merkel as the only adult in the room and the patron saint of liberalism.

I saw, live, how she mismanaged the Eurocrisis, turning a banking crisis into a humanitarian crisis, and how her reaction to the invasion of Crimea was meek.

but if you dared to say something about this, you were seen as a dangerous communist or worse.

I hated her flawed politics for 15 years. But now, surprisingly, I kind of miss her. not because she was good; she was terrible as i said, but the new leadership, especially in Germany, is far worse: Friedrich Merz is a zero, and von der Leyen seems utterly retarded, and i don't mean it in a mocking way, but literally: they are always choosing the worst option for Europe at every step.

dark clouds over europe... but mostly, of our own making.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#66

Post by lifestyleguru »

adwn wrote: post #55
h4kor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasons I can think of (as a German) from the top of my head: - Crumbling infrastructure - Decades of missing investments in education and the public sector - no digitization - Unwillingness to move away from ICE vehicles - Slow internet access and slow build out of fiber network - Killing future industries (solar, battery ...) by cutting funding/subsidies early - low wages in European comparison

Whenever you hear a German entrepreneur talk about the biggest obstacles they have and are facing, it's never crumbling infrastructure or slow internet . The number one complaint is always excessive bureaucracy and crippling regulations . > Slow internet access and slow build out of fiber network We don't have dial-up anymore. High-speed access is not a problem for commercial and industrial sites, and rarely a proble…

IDK man... the rental market in German cities is "beggars can't be choosers" market and you are very likely ending up with 16Mbit DSL on 2 years contract.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#67

Post by h4kor »

adwn wrote: post #55
h4kor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasons I can think of (as a German) from the top of my head: - Crumbling infrastructure - Decades of missing investments in education and the public sector - no digitization - Unwillingness to move away from ICE vehicles - Slow internet access and slow build out of fiber network - Killing future industries (solar, battery ...) by cutting funding/subsidies early - low wages in European comparison

Whenever you hear a German entrepreneur talk about the biggest obstacles they have and are facing, it's never crumbling infrastructure or slow internet . The number one complaint is always excessive bureaucracy and crippling regulations . > Slow internet access and slow build out of fiber network We don't have dial-up anymore. High-speed access is not a problem for commercial and industrial sites, and rarely a proble…

At my former company we paid 900€/month for 1Gbit/s, which we required. That's definitely a problem when the same performance is available for ~50€/month a few kilometers over the border (in the Netherlands).

In rural regions workshops output is limited by their internet speed as the can only download that many CAD files from customer per day.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#68

Post by tacker2000 »

jansan wrote: post #62
zerof1l wrote: post #52

Germany desperately needs a wake-up call in the form of recession. German car industry has been non-competitive for multiple years now. Instead of letting it fail, the government kept on flushing money down the toilet and prolonging the inevitable. For a business, there's no incentive anymore to choose Germany over other EU countries. Cheap energy is gone. Germany is literally collapsing under its own weight: endless…

What metrics are you using to label it as non-competitive?

Cheap russian gas is gone, so now all industry sectors (not only cars) are not as competetive as before.

They are now downsizing, etc in order to save themselves.

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#69

Post by kome »

anovikov wrote: post #46
kome wrote: post #36

Cutting cheap Russian gas was a suicidal move for European manufacturing (and households).

But it is necessary to do anyway? Just accept the losses and move on. Eventually solar will take over everywhere regardless of what anyone does, or doesn't. A few years of perturbations don't matter.

basically, you are right. as the other commented said, "Europe cedes sovereignty with gas" be it Russian or American. The continent should be laser focused with renewables and other forms of energy generation (also nuclear, if necessary, even if i am not too happy about it)

Re: German industrial output falls to 2005 levels as auto sector craters

#70

Post by yread »

kome wrote: post #36

Cutting cheap Russian gas was a suicidal move for European manufacturing (and households).

Wait until you hear about closing of the Dutch gas fields. 40 bcm3 ~15% of EU gas consumption closed due to cracks in 5000 houses in Groningen.
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