91–100 of 151 posts
I guess this is similar to what Astral is doing on the Python side? As far as Astral goes, so far they've distributed all the tooling separately but it seems they might be going towards consolidation as well.
The Vite tooling is also available separately and is fully MIT open source. This "package" does the dirty work of tying the separate OSS packages together into a singular CLI/GUI tool.
Interesting, I am a heavy user of vite today and the featureset is interesting but I don't really understand how it will differ from "normal" vite and why I would pay for it.
On twitter, they said that there will be an announcement on monday. so we will find out then. previously (i.e. before current viteconf), Evan had said that existing OSS (vite and below) will remain OSS. only newer tooling will be monetised
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No it's not out of date. It's very much the reality. Every new tool is just one more thing added on top. When I have to do something in a JS/TS repo at work it's always a surprise which epoch of JS hype stuff I find. Today I fix ESLint warnings, tomorrow it's Biome errors, then I need to figure out how to override dependencies in pnpm, but oh no there's a some bug in Bun now. Did I forget the 10249120491412e12 config…
If your complaint is that there are too many problems in too many different tools , then you sound like the perfect target for a UNIFIED tool that abstracts over others. Because of Vite, there was a total of ZERO work from my side involved in changing from Rollup to Rolldown, or from babel to Esbuild to SWC. The Rust/Go/uv model is the one to go. This is ONE step in this direction.
I haven't experienced nearly as much brittle build and dev tooling with other ecosystems, PHP or Python for example. Sure, they have their warts and problems and their fair amount of churn. But the sheer amount of JS tool and framework churn I experienced over the last few years was insane.
It might have cooled down somewhat by now, but I'm burned out. So reading about more churn to fix the churn just rubbed me the wrong way.
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At this point, I don't want unified tools. I want stable ones. I'm fine with using a separate linter/formatter/transpiler/bundler/..., but why can't they just stay stable for a bit. The only two tools I like in the JS world is `yarn` and `prettier`. They're focused and do what they do well. But you add eslint and any of the others and their configuration is a full fledged turing machine. Even autotools feels nice in…
What's not stable about Vite, ESLint, Typescript, Prettier? Apart from Vite itself, those have been standards for 8-10 years, and Vite itself has successfully replaced a huge mess of other tools. I agree that ESLint can become a mess, which is why I'm ok with a new competitor that doesn't require the extra configuration. Sure: they're also replacing Prettier (unnecessary) but everyone can keep using Prettier and chan…
Like, their decision to change configuration format in a way that breaks all and every plugin, tutorial, project in existence as a giant "fuck you" to the whole ecosystem and all web developers of the world - isn't that a reason good enough to never come back at this tool ever again?
> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.
This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…
Especially eslint with their decision to change configuration format in a way that breaks all and every plugin, tutorial, project in existence as a giant "fuck you" to the whole ecosystem and all web developers of the world.
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What's not stable about Vite, ESLint, Typescript, Prettier? Apart from Vite itself, those have been standards for 8-10 years, and Vite itself has successfully replaced a huge mess of other tools. I agree that ESLint can become a mess, which is why I'm ok with a new competitor that doesn't require the extra configuration. Sure: they're also replacing Prettier (unnecessary) but everyone can keep using Prettier and chan…
For us non stable things were sass and Tailwind. Lost a lot of dev work just to upgrade those with no visible benefit at all. Everything else is smooth and silk Ohh, yes eslint 8 => 9 migration were also a big pain to handle.
Still not resolved. Their main recommended config is still not updated for 9.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…
No it's not out of date. It's very much the reality. Every new tool is just one more thing added on top. When I have to do something in a JS/TS repo at work it's always a surprise which epoch of JS hype stuff I find. Today I fix ESLint warnings, tomorrow it's Biome errors, then I need to figure out how to override dependencies in pnpm, but oh no there's a some bug in Bun now. Did I forget the 10249120491412e12 config…
And as I wrote in another reply: of course other technologies are not without issues and have their churn and warts and problems, but the sheer amount of JS hype and tool and framework churn I experienced over the last few years was insane.
It might have cooled down somewhat by now, but I'm burned out. So reading about more churn to fix the churn just rubbed me the wrong way.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…
So you're saying that we finally have a semi-stable toolchain (I disagree) and the correct path forward is to change it all again? Lol I think the cynicism is very much justified.
I remember gulp/grunt saga, I remember webpack 5 saga and the most recent pain with eslint 8 → 9 is a final nail in the coffin of anything stable for web building.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Rome also failed because it was attempting to build everything (transpiler/bundler/linter/etc) from scratch. It was also unfortunately timed. When they started they were competing against webpack, but right around the start of the project compilers written in more performant languages like ESBuld and SWC start to take off and out compete Rome before it even got off the ground.
TIming was hardly an issue since they didn't produce anything important. moreover, their first focus was on formatter, which can be as low priority for any dev as it gets. Even Vite+ is focused on vite and rolldown first, and formatter last.
> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.
This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…
Jesus, it's bad enough I can't leave a js project for 6 months without it starting to rot. Now my cynicism has to be updated too?