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Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

viteplus.dev

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Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#61

Post by YuukiRey »

whstl wrote: post #8
avhception wrote: post #4

> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

No it's not out of date. It's very much the reality. Every new tool is just one more thing added on top. When I have to do something in a JS/TS repo at work it's always a surprise which epoch of JS hype stuff I find. Today I fix ESLint warnings, tomorrow it's Biome errors, then I need to figure out how to override dependencies in pnpm, but oh no there's a some bug in Bun now. Did I forget the 10249120491412e12 config options of Jest? Ah no wait, this one is Vitest.

For NextJS, do you remember the runtime used for middlewares? What was this swc thing again?

It never ends. Every year new things are added and they never really replace anything, it's just one more thing to learn and maintain.

If every technology causes exactly 1 issue per week then you quickly spend 50% of your time fixing bugs that have absolutely zero to do with what your company is actually doing.

---- EDIT

And it doesn't even stop at issues. Every one of those technologies regularly goes through breaking changes. In the process, plugins are deprecated, new ones have completely different APIs. You want to upgrade one thing for a security fix, then you're forced to upgrade 10 other things and it spirals out of control and you've spent entire work days just sifting through change logs to change `excludeFile` to `excludedFile` to `includeGlob` to `fileFilter` to `streamBouncer` to I don't know what.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#62

Post by brightball »

avhception wrote: post #30
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

I'm not even a JS dev, I support the CI pipelines and Docker images and whatnot. It's something else every week. When I get it to work eventually, it's brittle as hell. I just want the madness to stop. I don't even care any more.

Take a look at Rails 7+. They shifted to just using import maps and abandoned the build step entirely. Simplifies everything.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#63

Post by manniL »

brightball wrote: post #62
avhception wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even a JS dev, I support the CI pipelines and Docker images and whatnot. It's something else every week. When I get it to work eventually, it's brittle as hell. I just want the madness to stop. I don't even care any more.

Take a look at Rails 7+. They shifted to just using import maps and abandoned the build step entirely. Simplifies everything.

They also abandoned performance!

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#64

Post by runako »

jansan wrote: post #55
ownagefool wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the idea of the tools being standardized behind a single command like golang is nice, but this is largely what it all comes down to. "Vite+ will be source-available and offers a generous free tier." I'm also a developer ( sometimes ) and we need to eat. However, for me these tools are too low of a level of he stack to monetize, so I'll probably stick with my collection of free tools.

Evan You wrote on Twitter that source code will be accessible to everyone, but not under a full permissible license. He also wrote that they have no plans to sell any code licenses.

> they have no plans to sell any code licenses

Every for-profit is subject to being sold to someone with different plans. If the license is not fully open, it's not smart to expect the licensing terms to get worse.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#66

Post by brightball »

manniL wrote: post #63
brightball wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at Rails 7+. They shifted to just using import maps and abandoned the build step entirely. Simplifies everything.

They also abandoned performance!

Are there any negative performance stories that came from the move? I can't imagine any negatives outside of "1st load"?

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#67

Post by hombre_fatal »

YuukiRey wrote: post #61
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

No it's not out of date. It's very much the reality. Every new tool is just one more thing added on top. When I have to do something in a JS/TS repo at work it's always a surprise which epoch of JS hype stuff I find. Today I fix ESLint warnings, tomorrow it's Biome errors, then I need to figure out how to override dependencies in pnpm, but oh no there's a some bug in Bun now. Did I forget the 10249120491412e12 config…

Meh, you're just describing software. Especially complex client-side software build chains.

Opening up iOS or macOS app source code I haven't touched in years in the latest Xcode I just downloaded is a lot like that. There is anything from Swift errors to API changes to my build plist being invalid. And if I use any third-party tools, they probably don't work until I visit each one's latest readme.

And that's without even insisting on using the latest unstable tech (bun, biome, nextjs) like you did in your comment where you would expect that experience.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#68

Post by [deleted] »

debazel wrote: post #22
0x696C6961 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that we finally have a semi-stable toolchain (I disagree) and the correct path forward is to change it all again? Lol I think the cynicism is very much justified.

It doesn't seem like this project is intended to replace the existing tools, but rather combine them into a more convenient bundle.

[deleted]

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#69

Post by hv42 »

thiht wrote: post #48
hv42 wrote: post #46

I am wondering what vite+ will have that will really make it worth it compared to the "rstack" (i.e. rspack, rsbuild, rstest, rslint, etc.) rsbuild is already excellent and things like remote cache are on their roadmap?

Familiarity I guess? I've never heard of rsbuild before. In comparison, the "Vite" name directly brings me joy and makes me think of high quality, enjoyable tooling.

They seem to have less marketing for sure. If you are migrating from webpack or create-react-app, rspack/rsbuild is a no brainer. (at least worth a try IMO)

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#70

Post by rk06 »

staticelf wrote: post #37

Interesting, I am a heavy user of vite today and the featureset is interesting but I don't really understand how it will differ from "normal" vite and why I would pay for it.

On twitter, they said that there will be an announcement on monday. so we will find out then.

previously (i.e. before current viteconf), Evan had said that existing OSS (vite and below) will remain OSS. only newer tooling will be monetised

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