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Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

viteplus.dev

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Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#11

Post by johnnypangs »

whstl wrote: post #7
johnnypangs wrote: post #6

Ehhhhh... what does this mean for the open source versions of all these libs? You could interpret some of the graphs as vite oss isn't getting rolldown. That would be disappointing but still okay.

> You could interpret some of the graphs as vite oss isn't getting rolldown Vite already has rolldown support in the current version, it's just in alpha/test stage.

It seems to just be a plan at the moment although like you say you can test it out:

https://vite.dev/guide/rolldown.html#how-to-try-rolldown

Nothing is keeping them to this plan other though, I hope they do follow through. That would make the graph on the page misleading in the other direction though as the speed feature would be included in the non plus version.

I want to also say I'm a happy vite user (and the other projects that team makes).

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#12

Post by Galanwe »

I don't get it. If I'm looking for a new webdev stack, I would obviously want something free, open source.

A big "Request early access" followed by a contact form at the top of the landing page is an instant redflag of vendor locking, who would ever want that?

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#13

Post by 0x696C6961 »

whstl wrote: post #8
avhception wrote: post #4

> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

So you're saying that we finally have a semi-stable toolchain (I disagree) and the correct path forward is to change it all again? Lol I think the cynicism is very much justified.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#15

Post by skydhash »

whstl wrote: post #8
avhception wrote: post #4

> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

At this point, I don't want unified tools. I want stable ones. I'm fine with using a separate linter/formatter/transpiler/bundler/..., but why can't they just stay stable for a bit.

The only two tools I like in the JS world is `yarn` and `prettier`. They're focused and do what they do well. But you add eslint and any of the others and their configuration is a full fledged turing machine. Even autotools feels nice in comparison to that mayhem.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#16

Post by dvt »

whstl wrote: post #8
avhception wrote: post #4

> Built for growing teams tired of configuring, patching, and replacing their JavaScript tooling stack. Ah, great, another Javascript tooling stack! Let's jump on board! I'll get straight to configuring, replacing and patching as soon as possible. Or maybe let's just don't. I'm tired, Boss.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

> much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc.

What? That mess is still ongoing. Next.js for example (probably the most popular "out of the box" solution) technically uses SWC, but not quite, because it doesn't support `styled-components` so you need to use Babel for that. But wait, you might also need to use tailwind, and for that you'll need `postcss` which might also work with Babel with `babel-plugin-import-postcss` but not necessarily, could also just use it as a Next plugin, but that doesn't always[1] seem to work.

I don't think this mess will ever end unless we throw React/Vue, and all "reactive" frameworks in the dustbin and we'll get enough folks on board to re-invent the web starting from scratch. But no one really wants to do that (yet?), so even things like Bun or Deno will try to be as compatible as possible making continuous concessions that will lead to the ongoing spaghettification of toolchains.

[1] https://github.com/vercel/next.js/discussions/65625

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#18

Post by CaptainOfCoit »

__jonas wrote: post #17

I'm very happy with Vite, this toolchain on top of it looks useful too, I would have preferred all that to just be part of vite (similar to bun) but I guess there are good reasons to keep the scope of core vite smaller?

Immediate business benefit that comes to mind is that you can make it proprietary/"source available" instead of FOSS and subsequently charge for it. You could charge for it while remaining FOSS and one big bundle in Vite, but businesses tend to prefer the first route for better or worse.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#19

Post by CaptainOfCoit »

Galanwe wrote: post #12

I don't get it. If I'm looking for a new webdev stack, I would obviously want something free, open source. A big "Request early access" followed by a contact form at the top of the landing page is an instant redflag of vendor locking, who would ever want that?

It's also explicitly not FOSS, "Vite+ will be source-available" it says on the page so effectively proprietary for all intents and purposes. A free pricing plan will be in place that will initially be very generous, but as time goes on and the business will need more money, it'll slowly get worse and worse.

Eventually you'll need to migrate away or cough up serious money. So yeah, not sure who'd go for this.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#20

Post by whstl »

skydhash wrote: post #15
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

At this point, I don't want unified tools. I want stable ones. I'm fine with using a separate linter/formatter/transpiler/bundler/..., but why can't they just stay stable for a bit. The only two tools I like in the JS world is `yarn` and `prettier`. They're focused and do what they do well. But you add eslint and any of the others and their configuration is a full fledged turing machine. Even autotools feels nice in…

What's not stable about Vite, ESLint, Typescript, Prettier? Apart from Vite itself, those have been standards for 8-10 years, and Vite itself has successfully replaced a huge mess of other tools.

I agree that ESLint can become a mess, which is why I'm ok with a new competitor that doesn't require the extra configuration. Sure: they're also replacing Prettier (unnecessary) but everyone can keep using Prettier and change if Oxfmt ever becomes better.

All the other tools here are either existing, or drop-in replacements.

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