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Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

blog.miguelgrinberg.com

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Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#261

Post by psychoslave »

feoren wrote: post #167
psychoslave wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My point is not that math never changes -- it should, and does. However, math does not simply rot over time, like code seems to (or at least we simply assume it does). Math does not age out. Just in the same sense that CS does not age out. Most concepts stick, but I'm pretty sure you didn't go through Στοιχεία (The Elements) in its original version. I'm also pretty confident that most people out there that use many…

> I'm pretty sure you didn't go through Στοιχεία (The Elements) in its original version This is like saying "you haven't read the source code of the first version of Linux". The only reason to do that would be for historical interest. There is still something timeless about it, and I absolutely did learn Euclid's postulates which he laid down in those books, all 5 of which are still foundational to most geometry calc…

So that's it. Just because new languages and framework are rising and fading away, it doesn't mean there is nothing kept all along the way. It just that specific implementation is not the thing that people deem the most important to preserve over time.

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#262

Post by KK7NIL »

masspro wrote: post #258
Night_Thastus wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try running software from 1995 on a brand new system and you'll find all sorts of fun reasons why it's more complicated than that.

I don’t think I can take that claim by itself as necessarily implying the cause is hardware. Consumer OSes were on the verge of getting protected memory at that time, as an example of where things were, so if I imagine “take an old application and try to run it” then I am immediately imagining software problems, and software bit rot is a well-known thing. If the claim is “try to run Windows 95 on bare metal”, then…we…

Drivers make up a tiny portion of the software on our computer by any measure (memory or compute time) and they're far longer lasting than your average GUI app.

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#263

Post by hoerzu »

nadermx wrote: post #10

Tangential, but I practically owe my life to this guy. He wrote the flask mega tutorial in what I followed religiously to launch my first website. Then right before launch, in the most critical part of my entire application; piping a fragged file in flask. He answered my stackoverflow question, I put his fix live, and the site went viral. Here's the link for posterity's sake https://stackoverflow.com/a/34391304/41802…

such inspiring story!! And please bring back: https://www.microphonetest.com/?lang=en

one day of vibe coding

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#264

Post by KK7NIL »

famouswaffles wrote: post #259
KK7NIL wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a total red herring, x86 has over 30 years of backwards compatability and the same goes for the basic peripherals. The real reason for software churn isn't hardware churn, but hardware expansion. It's well known that software expands to use all available hardware resources (or even more, according to Wirth's law).

x86 doesn't have magical backwards compatibility powers. The amazing backwards compatibility of Windows is purely due to the sheer continuous effort of Microsoft.

> x86 doesn't have magical backwards compatibility powers.

I never said it did; other ISAs have similar if not longer periods of backwards compatability (IBM's Z systems architecture is backwards compatible with the System/360 released in 1964).

> The amazing backwards compatibility of Windows is purely due to the sheer continuous effort of Microsoft.

I never mentioned Windows but it's ridiculous to imply its backwards compatability is all on Microsoft. Show me a single example of a backwards breaking change in x86 that Windows has to compensate for to maintain backwards compatability.

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#265

Post by KK7NIL »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #249
KK7NIL wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a total red herring, x86 has over 30 years of backwards compatability and the same goes for the basic peripherals. The real reason for software churn isn't hardware churn, but hardware expansion. It's well known that software expands to use all available hardware resources (or even more, according to Wirth's law).

Try running software from 1995 on a brand new system and you'll find all sorts of fun reasons why it's more complicated than that.

Do you have any examples that aren't because of the OS (as in, not trying to run a 90's game on Windows 11) or specialized hardware (like an old Voodoo GPU or something)?

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#266

Post by 8organicbits »

sroussey wrote: post #233

Please don’t make benchmarks with timing inside the loop creating a sum. Just time the loop and divide by the number. Stuff happens getting the time and the jitter can mess with results.

I'll plug timeit, from the standard library as a good approach.

https://docs.python.org/3/library/timeit.html

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#268

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

nadermx wrote: post #59
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you throw any money his way?

Didn't know he had a patreon, just set it up so the first 100 people, since that's the max it allowed, can get a 1 year access to his discord https://www.patreon.com/miguelgrinberg/redeem/f/C28EB241BB

Thank you!

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#269

Post by zenmac »

psychoslave wrote: post #136
feoren wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hope it doesn't ? > [Donald Knuth] firmly believes that having an unchanged system that will produce the same output now and in the future is more important than introducing new features This is such a breath of fresh air in a world where everything is considered obsolete after like 3 years. Our industry has a disease, an insatiable hunger for newness over completeness or correctness . There's no reason we can't…

Stability is for sure a very seducing trait. Also I can totally understand the fatigue of the chase for the next almost already obsolete new stuff. >There's no reason we can't be writing code that lasts 100 years. There are many reason this is most likely not going to happen. Code despite best effort to achieve separation of concern (in the best case) is a highly contextual piece of work. Even with a simple program w…

Don't know about 100 years, but old static web page from lat 90's with js on wayback machine still works. There might be something to this static html css to archive content maybe even little programs.

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#270

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #97
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, Guido had a 2021 Faster CPython presentation where they claimed "5x in 4 years (1.5x per year)"[0]. Developers have significantly walked back those expectations since then. [0] Github slide deck https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/blob/main/FasterCPyt...

One important caveat to remember is that this is before a lot of the work on free-threaded python started in full force. A lot of cutting edge work had to be done to support this in the GC but this came with performance penalties. As a result, the trajectory of the Faster CPython effort changed quite a bit. Didn't help Microsoft axed several folks on that team too...

Sure, reality is a harsh mistress, but those were really optimistic targets which were used to frame a lot of the development efforts.
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