What are the reasons why nobody uses pypy?
Yeah I'm curious about this myself. Seems to utterly destroy CPython in every one of those benchmarks.
Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
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Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#52Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#53I would tell you a joke about python but it would take you a long time to get it.
At least you eventually get it. I regularly don't get UDP jokes.
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#54> And this is a bit disappointing. At least for this test, the JIT interpreter did not produce any significant performance gains, so much that I had to double and triple check that I used a correctly built interpreter with this feature enabled. I do not know much about the internals of the new JIT compiler, but I'm wondering if it cannot deal with this heavily recursive function. FWIW one thing that is worth calling…
I mean, Guido had a 2021 Faster CPython presentation where they claimed "5x in 4 years (1.5x per year)"[0]. Developers have significantly walked back those expectations since then.
[0] Github slide deck https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/blob/main/FasterCPyt...
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#55Let this version be known as PiPy!
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#56Very interesting post, thanks for putting it together. Rust is indeed quite fast, I thought NodeJS was much better tbh., although it's not bad. I'd be interested to learn what's holding it back because I've seen many implementations where V8 can get C++-like performance (I mean it's C++ after all). Perhaps there's a lot of overhead in creating/destroying temporary objects.
> V8 can get C++-like performance (I mean it's C++ after all)
I don’t think that follows. Python is written in C, but that doesn’t mean it can get C-like performance. The sticking point is in how much work the runtime has to do for each chunk of code it has to execute.
(Edit: sorry, that’s in reply to another child content. I’m on my phone in a commute and tapped the wrong reply button.)
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#57What are the reasons why nobody uses pypy?
Keep in mind that the two scripts that I used in my benchmark are written in pure Python, without any dependencies. This is the sweet spot for pypy. Once you start including dependencies that have native code their JIT is less efficient. Nevertheless, the performance for pure Python code is out of this world, so I definitely intend to play more with it!
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly, most Python devs neither need nor care about perf. Most applications don't even need perf, because whether it's .1 second or .001 seconds, the user is not going to notice. But this current quest to make Python faster is precisely because the sluggishness is noticeable for the task it's being used for most at the moment. That 6 second difference you note between the Optimal Python and the optimal Rust is mone…
> most Python devs neither need nor care about perf. You do understand that's a different but equivalent way of saying, " If you care about performance, then Python is not the language for you. ", don't you?
Yes, I'm consistent in that. What I don't get is if that's the case, why is there such a focus on improving Python perf? At best they're getting marginal improvements on something that most Python devs claim they don't care about, and which they say is not important for Python as a language due to JIT, C interop, and so on.
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#59Tangential, but I practically owe my life to this guy. He wrote the flask mega tutorial in what I followed religiously to launch my first website. Then right before launch, in the most critical part of my entire application; piping a fragged file in flask. He answered my stackoverflow question, I put his fix live, and the site went viral. Here's the link for posterity's sake https://stackoverflow.com/a/34391304/41802…
Did you throw any money his way?
Didn't know he had a patreon, just set it up so the first 100 people, since that's the max it allowed, can get a 1 year access to his discord https://www.patreon.com/miguelgrinberg/redeem/f/C28EB241BB
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been writing Python professionally for a couple of decades, and there've only been 2-3 times where its performance actually mattered. When writing a Flask API, the timing usually looks like: process the request for .1ms, make a DB call for 300ms, generate a response for .1ms. Or writing some data science stuff, it might be like: load data from disk or network for 6 seconds, run Numpy on it for 3 hours, write it…
And my experience is this: you start using ORMs, and maybe you need to format a large table once in a while. Then your Python just dies. Bonus points if you're using async to service multiple clients with the same interpreter. And you're now forced to spend time hunting down places for micro-optimizations. Or worse, you end up with a weird mix of Cython and Python that can only be compiled on the developer's machine.
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