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Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

blog.miguelgrinberg.com

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Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#141

Post by dieggsy »

feoren wrote: post #82
amelius wrote: post #27

I hope it doesn't get stuck at 3.14, like TeX. https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditDayOf/comments/7we430/donald_...

You hope it doesn't ? > [Donald Knuth] firmly believes that having an unchanged system that will produce the same output now and in the future is more important than introducing new features This is such a breath of fresh air in a world where everything is considered obsolete after like 3 years. Our industry has a disease, an insatiable hunger for newness over completeness or correctness . There's no reason we can't…

Are you by chance a Common Lisp developer? If not, you may like it (well, judging only by your praise of stability).

Completely sidestepping any debate about the language design, ease of use, quality of the standard library, size of community, etc... one of its strengths these days is that standard code basically remains functional "indefinitely", since the standard is effectively frozen. Of course, this requires implementation support, but there are lots of actively maintained and even newer options popping up.

And because extensibility is baked into the standard, the language (or its usage) can "evolve" through libraries in a backwards compatible way, at least a little more so than many other languages (e.g. syntax and object system extension; notable example: Coalton).

Of course there are caveats (like true, performant async programming) and it seems to be a fairly polarizing language in both directions; "best thing since sliced bread!" and "how massively overrated and annoying to use!". But it seems to fit your description decently at least among the software I use or know of.

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#144

Post by lucb1e »

nadermx wrote: post #10

Tangential, but I practically owe my life to this guy. He wrote the flask mega tutorial in what I followed religiously to launch my first website. Then right before launch, in the most critical part of my entire application; piping a fragged file in flask. He answered my stackoverflow question, I put his fix live, and the site went viral. Here's the link for posterity's sake https://stackoverflow.com/a/34391304/41802…

For anyone else wondering whether to click to find what "fragged file" means: no, it's not about Quake and the linked page does not mention 'frag' at all. The question asks how to stream a file to the client in Flask as opposed to reading it all into memory at once and then sending it on. I figured as much (also because e.g. IP fragmentation) but first time I hear this alternative term for streaming

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#145

Post by rajamaka »

LostMyLogin wrote: post #93
miguelgrinberg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have made my day, sir. :)

When I was in college I discovered the flask mega tutorial and fell in love with programming. Switched from an economics degree to software engineering and now work in the industry. Thank you for the work you put in.

Also discovered flask in college but was a year away from finishing a marketing degree.

I'm now a SWE with just a marketing degree!

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#146

Post by librasteve »

Very nice post - it's good to see benchmarks done for humans.

For fun, I tried this in Raku:

  (0, 1, *+* ... *)[40]    #0.10s user 0.03s system 63% cpu 0.214 total
lol

Seriously, Python is doing great stuff to squeeze out performance from a scripting language. Realistically, Raku has fewer native libraries (although there is Inline::Python) and the compiler still has a lot of work to get the same degree of optimisation (although one day it could compare).

EDIT: for those who have commented, yes you are correct … this is a “cheat” and does not seek to state that Raku is faster than Python - as I said Raku still has a lot of work to do to catch up.

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#148

Post by azkalam »

lenerdenator wrote: post #117
kstrauser wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t completely argue against that, and I’ve also adopted Rust for smaller or faster work. Still, I contend that a freaking enormous portion of computing workloads are IO bound to the point that even Python’s speed is Good Enough in an Amdahl’s Law kind of way.

It's been said that Python's greatest superpower is that it's the second-best language at the most stuff. No one's really developed an ecosystem for a language that's more performant that can match it, and that's all it needs to assert dominance.

I've never understood this. Python cannot be optimized like C, C++ or Rust. It cannot do advanced functional things like OCaml, Haskell or Scala. It cannot run in browsers like TypeScript. It cannot do games programming like C# and it can't do crazy macro stuff like Clojure. I don't think it's even second best at those things.

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#149

Post by psychoslave »

feoren wrote: post #118
bitwize wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except uh, nobody uses infinitesimals for derivatives anymore, they all use limits now. There's still some cruft left over from the infinitesimal era, like this dx and dy business, but that's just a backwards compatibility layer. Anyhoo, remarks like this are why the real ones use Typst now. TeX and family are stagnant, difficult to use, difficult to integrate into modern workflows, and not written in Rust.

> the real ones use Typst now Are you intentionally leaning into the exact caricature I'm referring to? " Real programmers only use Typstly, because it's the newest !". The website title for Typst when I Googled it literally says "The new foundation for documents". Its entire appeal is that it's new? Thank you for giving me such a perfect example of the symptom I'm talking about. > TeX and family are stagnant, diffic…

>My point is not that math never changes -- it should, and does. However, math does not simply rot over time, like code seems to (or at least we simply assume it does). Math does not age out.

Just in the same sense that CS does not age out. Most concepts stick, but I'm pretty sure you didn't go through Στοιχεία (The Elements) in its original version. I'm also pretty confident that most people out there that use many of the notion it holds and helped to spread never threw their eyes over a single copy of it in their native language.

Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?

#150

Post by azkalam »

npalli wrote: post #44
kstrauser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been writing Python professionally for a couple of decades, and there've only been 2-3 times where its performance actually mattered. When writing a Flask API, the timing usually looks like: process the request for .1ms, make a DB call for 300ms, generate a response for .1ms. Or writing some data science stuff, it might be like: load data from disk or network for 6 seconds, run Numpy on it for 3 hours, write it…

LOL, python is plenty fast if you make sure it calls C or Rust behind the scenes. Typical of 'professional' python people. Something too slow? just drop into C. It surely sounds weird to everyone who complains about Python being slow and the response is on these lines.

This assumes the boundary between Python and the native code is clean and rarely crossed.
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