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NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

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Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#71

Post by Lukeas14 »

dhugiaskmak wrote: post #61
Lukeas14 wrote: post #36

I never understood the fear of fans wrongly criticizing teams/players/coaches based on the All-22 tape. All other sports make their own equivalent of it available allowing fans to see every mistake made by every player. As far as I know it hasn't resulted in any worse sportsmanship. Football in particular has always had Monday morning quarterbacks and always will. The media has always had access to the All-22 tape an…

All other sports make their own equivalent of it available allowing fans to see every mistake made by every player. What other sports do that?

MLB.tv and TNT Overtime(NBA) both allow you to watch games online with your own choice of camera angles. The MLS seems to be lacking this option.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#72

Post by roc »

xpose2000 wrote: post #29
swang wrote: post #20

"And therein lies the problem with All-22 tape becoming available to the general public, particularly when it comes to passing plays. Someone will be open and many fans will assume that the quarterback did not make the right read or was locked onto another receiver. Yet in reality there is a progression on every pass play -- based on the coverage -- that a quarterback must rely on to determine who gets the ball. What…

"Hey guy posting on NFL.com, thanks for assuming the entire fanbase consists of complete idiots!" That's Michael Lombardi. Perhaps you are not giving him enough credit as a former NFL executive? He is more than just "some guy". "ESPN/NFL films has been feeding this to us for years using their access to All-22" That is a partially correct statement. They would highlight specific plays and break them down for us (Ron J…

I don't think the 'average fan' is ever breaking anything down on their own. It just requires too much dedication and time to build the knowledge.

But the key is that this isn't being released to just the average fans.

What we're more likely to see, is a cottage industry of superfans springing up to 'go-Jaworski' on more plays, more games, etc. And that content will be consumed by the average fan.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#73

Post by [deleted] »

wangarific wrote: post #52
Evbn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same argument was used to defend closed access journals: the public can't be trusted to understand raw scientific research.

Anytime you open up anything like this, you force the "experts" to prove they're actually experts... and that's often difficult.

[deleted]

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#74

Post by neilkelty »

sp332 wrote: post #48
neilkelty wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a user experience question - the tv is optimized for fans interested in watching the game action, not analyzing all the strategy.

It's not just live TV though. They take footage from a lot of angles during the game, and make it available to other networks for post-game analysis, etc. But they haven't made the All-22 footage available at all. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3275698

I was commenting specifically on the 3 hour "live game experience" shown on CBS, FOX, etc. I'm not sure most of the market wants the type of analysis that would be required to give coverage to the 22-Man views. They just want to watch the game, not think about strategy.

However, there are certainly people (myself included), who would gladly pay the small fee here to better understand the strategy behind the game.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#75

Post by jredwards »

phildeschaine wrote: post #33
mindcrime wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, I'm not sure it's of wide interest to HN. As far as I can tell, I'm the only one here who likes NFL football. Nah, there's at least two of us. #GODOLPHINS

I grew up a Lions fan, but man, that HBO show Hard Knocks got me hooked on your team. Now I find myself wanting to watch Dolphins' games and hoping Joe Philbin gets it together.

This is surprising to me. Hard Knocks has been a good series, but this year's offering was so much worse than any other year that I wonder if it won't get canceled outright (it doesn't help that teams aren't exactly lining up to participate).

I found Joe Philbin to be insufferably boring. Maybe it's just the contrast with Rex Ryan last year.

At any rate. I'm glad there are so many football fans in the HN ranks.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#76

Post by sp332 »

neilkelty wrote: post #74
sp332 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just live TV though. They take footage from a lot of angles during the game, and make it available to other networks for post-game analysis, etc. But they haven't made the All-22 footage available at all. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3275698

I was commenting specifically on the 3 hour "live game experience" shown on CBS, FOX, etc. I'm not sure most of the market wants the type of analysis that would be required to give coverage to the 22-Man views. They just want to watch the game, not think about strategy. However, there are certainly people (myself included), who would gladly pay the small fee here to better understand the strategy behind the game.

This probably won't change what's shown live at all. This is just about what's available on the NFL "Replay" website.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#77

Post by anigbrowl »

jerf wrote: post #19

The argument in this article is just ridiculous. Handwringing about giving fans more information because they might not interpret it correctly? Breaking news: A lot of people are already plenty wrong with the current amount of information. They'll be wrong with less, they'll be wrong with more, they'll be wrong if the info level stays the same. This is therefore a null argument.

The argument in this article is just ridiculous

It's on the NFL site. It's advertorial, marketing disguised as journalism. It's not making an argument, it's just stirring one up to get attention.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#78

Post by aderaynal »

thetabyte wrote: post #9
dfc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"HN users probably aren't much into football" Why do you think this? Are we too busy cleaning our pocket protectors and playing Dungeons and Dragons?

Additionally, why can't we play Dungeons and Dragons and watch football? I heavily enjoy both. Not to mention Fantasy Football, which is a strategy nerds dream, that they can actually play with their non-nerdy friends. Come to think of it, why don't we have HN Fantasy Football leagues?

I'm also at the intersection of HN and fantasy football, which led me to create http://app.pickemfirst.com a browser extension to manage your fantasy teams

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#79

Post by aderaynal »

freshrap6 wrote: post #69
bartonfink wrote: post #2

This is very exciting, as there's a lot of strategy to American football that isn't plainly visible when the camera just follows the ball as it does on television. It's not going to showcase technique very well, but it'll go a long way towards explaining e.g. why some wide receivers are always open, why some players always seem to be in the right position to interrupt a pass, etc. I'd actually find it very interestin…

Are there many sports based startups? I'd love to learn more about some.

here's my startup/side project: http://app.pickemfirst.com

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#80

Post by m_myers »

law wrote: post #31

It's incredible that they're offering this tape--especially from a computer vision perspective. With enough data, one could conceivably write a program that predicts a team's next play based on the players' pre-snap formation and the previous plays.

SportVU [1] already does some interesting work with NBA statistics based on computer vision (see [2]).

I wouldn't be surprised to see similar technology in the NFL soon.

[1]: http://www.sportvu.com/

[2]: http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/tech/post/_/id/492/492

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