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Apps SDK

developers.openai.com

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Re: Apps SDK

#101

Post by neutronicus »

cube2222 wrote: post #86
fidotron wrote: post #50

This conception makes sense iff you believe in ChatGPT as the universal user interface of the future. If anything the agentic wave is showing that the chat interfaces are better off hidden behind stricter user interface paradigms.

Is it? Honestly, most agents and/or ai apps I interact with that are actually useful present some form of chat-like interface. I’m not very bullish on people wanting to live in the ChatGPT UI, specifically, but the concept of dynamic apps embedded into a chat-experience I think is a reasonable direction. I’m mostly curious about if and when we get an open standard for this, similar to MCP.

Yes, I certainly prefer "chatting with Claude Code" to "Copilot taking forever to hallucinate all over my IDE, displacing the much-more-useful previous-generation semantic autocomplete."

The former is like a Waymo, the latter is like my car suddenly and autonomously deciding that now is a good time to turn into a Dollar Tree to get a COVID vaccine when I'm on my way to drop my kid off at a playdate.

Re: Apps SDK

#102

Post by throwacct »

serial_dev wrote: post #93
throwacct wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With what exactly? They are desperately trying to create a "marketplace" and become gatekeepers on the backs of developers and businesses alike. There's no innovation here.

I guess what’s implied is that developers and businesses would innovate, not OpenAI directly.

Knowing OAI's history, only big whales could survive being copied by the platform's owner—case in point: Amazon Basics. They're so big that most of the time, SMBs can't escape them and don't have a choice but to cave to Amazon's demands. Is your product successful? Great, I'll copy you, add the "Amazon basics" label, and start bombarding users with my "product".

Re: Apps SDK

#103

Post by pyuser583 »

jampa wrote: post #90
siva7 wrote: post #58

This feels like a fever dream. As a developer everything changes every week. A new model, a new tool, a new sdk, paradigm we have to learn. I'm getting tired of all that shit.

As a JS developer for over 10 years who has seen multiple hype waves, here is my advice: You don't need to ride the first wave. You can wait until technology matures and see if it has staying power. For example, React and TypeScript were hard to set up initially. I deferred learning them for years until the tooling improved and they were clearly here to stay. Likewise, I'm glad I didn't dive into tech like LangChain…

LangChain has gone? I thought it was still around.

Re: Apps SDK

#104

Post by CharlieDigital »

AlphaAndOmega0 wrote: post #91
OtherShrezzing wrote: post #85

OpenAI launched an App Store in Nov 2023. A 23 month turnaround from major feature launch, to deprecation, to relaunch is a commitment to product longevity that’d put Google to shame.

I found it genuinely impressive how useless their "GPTs" were. Of course, part of it was due to the fact that the out-of-the-box models became so competent that there was no need for a customized model, especially when customization boiled down to barely more than some kind of custom system prompt and hidden instructions. I get the impression that's the same reason their fine-tuning services never took off either, si…

    > I get the impression that's the same reason their fine-tuning services never took off either
Also, very few workloads that you'd want to use AI for are prime cases for fine-tuning. We had some cases where we used fine tuning because the work was repetitive enough that FT provided benefits in terms of speed and accuracy, but it was a very limited set of workloads.

Re: Apps SDK

#105

Post by falcor84 »

esafak wrote: post #77
siva7 wrote: post #58

This feels like a fever dream. As a developer everything changes every week. A new model, a new tool, a new sdk, paradigm we have to learn. I'm getting tired of all that shit.

Specialize, escape, or accept.

Like "Abort, Retry, Fail"? And same as there, what's the difference between the first and the third? Is there a way of accepting a new sdk every week without specializing?

Re: Apps SDK

#106

Post by derekcheng08 »

fidotron wrote: post #50

This conception makes sense iff you believe in ChatGPT as the universal user interface of the future. If anything the agentic wave is showing that the chat interfaces are better off hidden behind stricter user interface paradigms.

I suspect there are many, many things for which chat is a great interface. And by positioning ChatGPT as the distributor for all these things, they get to be the new Google. But you're also right that many domains for which a purpose-built interface is the right approach, and if the domain is valuable enough, it'll have someone coming after it to build that.

Re: Apps SDK

#107

Post by JumpCrisscross »

neutronicus wrote: post #95
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been the pitched playbook for decades. (Metamates!) I'm increasingly convinced its driven by a specific generation of tech entrepreneurs who cut their teeth while reading ca. 1980s science fiction. I could see chat apps becoming dominant in Slack-oriented workplaces. But, like, chatting with an AI to play a song is objectively worse than using Spotify. Dynamically-created music sounds nice until one consider…

Chatting with an AI to play a song whose title you know, sure. Getting an AI to play "that song that goes hmm hmmm hmmm hmmm ... uh, it was in some commercials when I was a kid" tho

> Getting an AI to play "that song that goes hmm hmmm hmmm hmmm ... uh, it was in some commercials when I was a kid" tho

Absolutely. The point is this is a specialised and occasional use case. You don't want to have to go through a chat bot every time you want to play a particular song just because sometimes you might hum at it.

The closest we've come to a widely-adopted AR interface are AirPods. Critically, however, they work by mimicing how someone would speak to a real human by them.

Re: Apps SDK

#108

Post by apwell23 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #104
AlphaAndOmega0 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it genuinely impressive how useless their "GPTs" were. Of course, part of it was due to the fact that the out-of-the-box models became so competent that there was no need for a customized model, especially when customization boiled down to barely more than some kind of custom system prompt and hidden instructions. I get the impression that's the same reason their fine-tuning services never took off either, si…

> I get the impression that's the same reason their fine-tuning services never took off either Also, very few workloads that you'd want to use AI for are prime cases for fine-tuning. We had some cases where we used fine tuning because the work was repetitive enough that FT provided benefits in terms of speed and accuracy, but it was a very limited set of workloads.

> fine tuning because the work was repetitive enough that FT provided benefits in terms of speed and accuracy,

can you share anymore info on this. i am curious about what the usecase was and how it improved speed (of inference?) and accuracy.

Re: Apps SDK

#109

Post by fidotron »

cube2222 wrote: post #86
fidotron wrote: post #50

This conception makes sense iff you believe in ChatGPT as the universal user interface of the future. If anything the agentic wave is showing that the chat interfaces are better off hidden behind stricter user interface paradigms.

Is it? Honestly, most agents and/or ai apps I interact with that are actually useful present some form of chat-like interface. I’m not very bullish on people wanting to live in the ChatGPT UI, specifically, but the concept of dynamic apps embedded into a chat-experience I think is a reasonable direction. I’m mostly curious about if and when we get an open standard for this, similar to MCP.

The whole value of an actual executive assistant is them solving problems and you not micromanaging them.

What users want, which various entities religiously avoid providing to us, is a fair price comparison and discovery mechanism for essentially everything. A huge part of the value of LLMs to date is in bypassing much of the obfuscation that exists to perpetuate this, and that's completely counteracted by much of what they're demonstrating here.

Re: Apps SDK

#110

Post by apwell23 »

siva7 wrote: post #58

This feels like a fever dream. As a developer everything changes every week. A new model, a new tool, a new sdk, paradigm we have to learn. I'm getting tired of all that shit.

nothing really changed much here though. re llms nothing really has changed either, its mostly just scaling. there is really not much to learn as a consumer and app builder.
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