How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized • Hacker News Board

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#761

Post by ImPostingOnHN » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 4:49 AM UTC

jameshilliard wrote: post #742

holmesworcester wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel's main best option is to give Palestinians, at least those unambiguously born under Israel's control, the right to vote in Israeli federal elections. A government that can kick down the door of the house you were born in has a duty to give you voting rights. (And if your ethnic group is denied voting rights, you have a basic duty to your fellow man to raise hell until you get those rights, because arbitrary st…

[flagged]

It's always bizarre to hear this sort of doomsaying about what would befall israelis if they treated Palestinians as the equal humans they are: 'it's suicide to treat Palestinians as people'; 'innocent folks will be expelled from their land if we treat Palestinians as people'; "or worse, killed!'

It's bizarre because all the horrible prophecies have already come true, or are coming true, only with the roles reversed: We see that it is actually israel genociding Palestinians, rather than vice versa.

Somehow these doomsaying prophets feel this dystopia is actually totally ok, as long as the victims have a particular religion or skin color. Or, to be charitable, maybe the prophets have been paying exactly zero attention to what israel has been doing to innocent Palestinian civilians over the years.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#762

Post by ciconia » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 4:50 AM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #593

ciconia wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The division is not about the starvation of Gaza. All Zionist parties in the Israeli parliament support the military campaign in Gaza. Apart from some lip-service from left-wing leaders, to my knowledge no Jewish leader has spoken against the starvation. Israeli media (except for Haaretz) have largely denied that there is a famine, and have called it a "propaganda campaign" by the Hamas.

Honest question from someone whose knowledge of Israel's government isn't deep: does "Zionist parties" mean anything other than the parties which are not Arab parties? (are members of the Arab parties free to advocate against Zionism and Israel's status as a Jewish state?)

All parties except for the Arabs and ultra religious are Zionist. The ultra religious have their own relationship with Zionism, but are members of the government.

While Arab MKs do enjoy freedom of speech, they are ostracized and delegitimized by the majority of Jewish MKs.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#763

Post by boxed » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 4:54 AM UTC

churchill wrote: post #31

boxed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

So the arab expulsion of the jews in 1948 was a genocide?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#764

Post by bigyabai » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 4:58 AM UTC

tmnvix wrote: post #758

SilverElfin wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response Is it disproportionate? Why do we talk about proportions when it comes to Jewish people defending their security but don’t bring it up in other conflicts? There was no talk of proportionate response after 9/11, for example. Virtually all nations who participated in the global war on terror didn’t care. Proportionality is also not relevant when you’re…

> There was no talk of proportionate response after 9/11 I guess it depends on where you were, but for me in Australia at the time, yes - there was plenty.

Some of America's most famous writers weighed in at the time. Here's Hunter S. Thompson warning about how 9/11's narrative will be used to warp the perception of empire:

https://www.espn.com/page2/s/thompson/010918.html

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#765

Post by bigyabai » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:01 AM UTC

dlubarov wrote: post #622

potatototoo99 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we were to believe Israel, why did they ban foreign media from Gaza? I'm sure the "most moral" army in the world has nothing to hide?

> why did they ban foreign media from Gaza For the same various reasons (safety, opsec, etc) every modern military does. Ukraine for example only allows invited, escorted media in "red" zones. Most people seem to understand and accept such restrictions, except when it's Israel.

Probably because it also helps enforce the Israeli Military Censor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#766

Post by temptemptemp111 » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:04 AM UTC

SilverElfin wrote: post #707

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #591

Israel's response to Oct 7th has been a major blackpill. Their strategy was, I think, as bad as it could possibly be. In fact, it really seemed, and still seems, like no strategy at all -- they lashed out wildly and extremely destructively, without a clear picture of what the post-war Gaza Strip will look like. Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response that killed tens of thousands, if not hun…

> Hamas successfully baited Israel into a disproportionate response Is it disproportionate? Why do we talk about proportions when it comes to Jewish people defending their security but don’t bring it up in other conflicts? There was no talk of proportionate response after 9/11, for example. Virtually all nations who participated in the global war on terror didn’t care. Proportionality is also not relevant when you’re…

[dead]

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#767

Post by asdefghyk » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:04 AM UTC

bigyabai wrote: post #705

asdefghyk wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean "bad things" Hamas has done to their own? people ( Gaza people). Example - Hamas has killed people who criticise it ( or I should say thats whats been reported )

I don't think you read my last comment. Hundreds of embedded reporters living in Gaza have died, the only remaining perspective is the famously biased hasbara news, subject to the Israeli Military Censor unit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor We can't take Israel's word for it, since the IDF controls their media. We don't have much independent reporting since Israel suppresses it. You can pretty…

Hamas controls the reporters in Gaza too.... Its reported, Some have been killed by Hamas for not reporting as directed by Hamas.

Any reporters previously associated in any way with Hamas would be a extremely dangerous position.

Israel while having release some information on such journalists would NOT be releasing sensitive information that would give clues how information is collected and associated surveillance techniques. No doubt they and lots other militaries would have amazing tracking and interception capabilities. Israel would also be receiving information contributed by associated powers from other countries.

Also maybe Israel have recruited some Gaza people as spys?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#768

Post by markessien » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:06 AM UTC

jameshilliard wrote: post #684

holmesworcester wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country loses its right to "re-establish deterrence" when the population it's "deterring" is born inside its own de-facto borders, and when the only reason it needs to deter so many of them is that they would (rightly) like one of a) sovereignty or b) voting rights inside the federal system that controls their borders and can kick down the doors of the houses they were born in. If Israel would like to give Gaza ful…

> A country loses its right to "re-establish deterrence" when the population it's "deterring" is born inside its own de-facto borders, and when the only reason it needs to deter so many of them is that they would (rightly) like one of a) sovereignty or b) voting rights inside the federal system that controls their borders and can kick down the doors of the houses they were born in. It's not just Palestinians they nee…

So eternal apartheid? That's what will make the Palestinians happy? When the Tamil Tigers were defeated, they were able to vote in their country. The separatists in Spain get to vote in Spain. The kurds get to vote in Turkey.

Israel is the only country that says: do not separate and create your own state, but at the same time if you stay here, we will NOT give you civil rights.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#769

Post by asdefghyk » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:12 AM UTC

bigyabai wrote: post #705

asdefghyk wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean "bad things" Hamas has done to their own? people ( Gaza people). Example - Hamas has killed people who criticise it ( or I should say thats whats been reported )

I don't think you read my last comment. Hundreds of embedded reporters living in Gaza have died, the only remaining perspective is the famously biased hasbara news, subject to the Israeli Military Censor unit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Censor We can't take Israel's word for it, since the IDF controls their media. We don't have much independent reporting since Israel suppresses it. You can pretty…

Gaza journalists would be in IDEAL position to be spys. Would always be roaming around hotspots, where the fighting is, so would have a increased much probability of being killed.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#770

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:13 AM UTC

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #761

jameshilliard wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's always bizarre to hear this sort of doomsaying about what would befall israelis if they treated Palestinians as the equal humans they are: 'it's suicide to treat Palestinians as people'; 'innocent folks will be expelled from their land if we treat Palestinians as people'; "or worse, killed!' It's bizarre because all the horrible prophecies have already come true, or are coming true, only with the roles reversed:…

> always bizarre to hear this sort of doomsaying about what would befall israelis if they treated Palestinians as the equal humans they are

Treating others as equals and co-inhabiting a space with them are quite different. Israel needs to treat Palestinians with dignity. But a lot of Palestinians (and Israelies) legitimately believe in exterminating the other. That's not a stable social base for building a state on.