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How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

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Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#451

Post by m101 »

alborzb wrote: post #446
m101 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers are just false. Even the Hamas numbers are 10x less than this!

I'm not sure why you're being down-voted... But here's two credible sources: Reuters estimates the deaths at 60,000 [ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestini... ] The UN estimates it to be at about 65,000 [ https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaz... ] Neither of which are around 600 thousand as the previous commenter posted. The French News Channel called France24 did a quick…

Are you surprised I'm being downvoted? I'm working towards my 500 karma so I can also start downvoting obvious nonsense like that comment but publicly correcting nonsense craters your karma.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#452

Post by HDThoreaun »

SilverElfin wrote: post #333
barbazoo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is irrelevant. Israel shouldn't block other countries from sending whatever aid, obviously making sure there's no arms.

[flagged]

No it cant because israel controls the borders and isnt letting any arms in. It can be used to pay terrorists but Israel just has to live with that. If they are confident aid is being used to pay terrorists the correct move is not cutting off aid its defending the aid

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#453

Post by Cyph0n »

stale2002 wrote: post #402
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's war initiated by Hamas Takes two to tango. Hamas started the war. Israel has continued it way past where it made sense. (No later than after Sinwar was killed.)

> way past where it made sense. If they don't destroy Hamas now, then a war will happen again in another 10 years. At which point 10s of thousands of palestinians will needlessly die, again. The only resolution to all of this, will happen when Hamas is completely disarmed and out of power. You can criticize how Israel goes about achieving that goal. But that goal is the only one that gets to a real, permanent peace.

They are not going to be able eliminate or disarm Hamas by force. Heck, they only were able to “rescue” the vast majority of hostages via negotiation.

The only way forward is negotiation.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#454

Post by thinkindie »

oytis wrote: post #385
thinkindie wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible how two years of continuing pounding a small strip of land still leaves ample space for Hamas to operate. To the point that Israel international reputation is damaged because, check notes, they don't allow baby formula for babies that might otherwise die under those aforementioned bombs. Or being amputated. Same with the latest "because Hamas": apparently Hamas, while being under the bombs with Israel…

Do you think Israel is able to destroy Hamas' power in Gaza, but prefers to starve babies instead?

John Oliver has a very valid point https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Bwix9IjOE

but this was already known: Netanyahu must cling to power, otherwise he will be screwed on so many levels, that's why he is sabotaging any agreement (and this has always been his modus operandi, see what he did back in the 90s).

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#455

Post by Humorist2290 »

dataflow wrote: post #59
rubzah wrote: post #4

There is simply no excuse for blocking the entry of food into a region wholesale. For that alone they should, at the very least, be an outcast in the international community. But here we are.

The claim I've heard them make is that the food aid is making it in, but being stolen by Hamas so that it can be resold at markup. How do you convince people that believe this that it isn't true (or is irrelevant)?

Then Israel severely limiting the amount of food is helping Hamas by artificially, and cruelly, limiting supply. People want to feed their families and will go to great lengths: sell their valuables, harm others, or wait in line at a Gaza Health Ministry site with the knowledge the IDF might fire into the crowd.

If they flooded Gaza with food then Hamas would benefit less from the supposed stealing/reselling.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#456

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ciconia wrote: post #236
justin66 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People sometimes forget how bitterly divided Israel was before October 7th, with hundreds of thousands of people protesting in the streets. The war put some of the infighting on hold for a while, but all the former problems still exist, and the stakes are higher.

The division is not about the starvation of Gaza. All Zionist parties in the Israeli parliament support the military campaign in Gaza. Apart from some lip-service from left-wing leaders, to my knowledge no Jewish leader has spoken against the starvation. Israeli media (except for Haaretz) have largely denied that there is a famine, and have called it a "propaganda campaign" by the Hamas.

> All Zionist parties in the Israeli parliament support the military campaign in Gaza

Source?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#457

Post by some_guy_nobel »

alborzb wrote: post #446
m101 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers are just false. Even the Hamas numbers are 10x less than this!

I'm not sure why you're being down-voted... But here's two credible sources: Reuters estimates the deaths at 60,000 [ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestini... ] The UN estimates it to be at about 65,000 [ https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported-impact-snapshot-gaz... ] Neither of which are around 600 thousand as the previous commenter posted. The French News Channel called France24 did a quick…

Well, these numbers are from July, and from that very first article:

"Official Palestinian tallies of direct deaths in the Gaza war likely undercounted the number of casualties by around 40% in the first nine months of the war as Gaza's healthcare infrastructure unravelled, according to a peer-reviewed study published in The Lancet journal in January."

Still, from those numbers, it seems difficult to stretch from 60k to 600k.

That said, even if you take the absolute tail number, 60k, how anyone can defend a genocide of 60k people in a land area smaller than Portland, in less than a year, is reprehensible. Especially when many of those are children. Almost one child murdered every 10 minutes, at the low end, for an entire year?

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#458

Post by notnaut »

just-the-wrk wrote: post #375

I think the most amazing part of the comments is how much the sentiment has changed over the last 2 years. Is anybody else noticing this?

Plausible deniability dried up as the blatantly skewed results of this “conflict” became impossible to ignore.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#459

Post by danielbenzvi1 »

some_guy_nobel wrote: post #444
m101 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These numbers are just false. Even the Hamas numbers are 10x less than this!

Small thought exercise: What if the numbers were real? Would that change any of your stances/views? Would you self-reflect and consider that you had been tricked into spreading lies at the expense of thousands of lives? Maybe it helps to start smaller. Many (Israeli's) have told me that the IDF is the world's most 'honest' military - one that even warns buildings before they're bombed! Then, you can imagine how diffi…

Let me turn the mirror around a bit. If numbers or incidents turn out to be false, exaggerated, or stripped of context, would you also self-reflect and consider that you might have been tricked into spreading lies - at the expense of Israelis whose lives are also on the line?

Of course, militaries make mistakes and sometimes issue wrong statements, just as governments everywhere do in the fog of war. The Rafah paramedic case you cite is tragic, and investigations matter. But a single flawed or retracted statement doesn’t prove a systematic policy of “lying” or “massacre” just as one instance of misconduct in any country’s army doesn’t automatically invalidate its overall values or procedures.

if we’re going to judge Israel by its errors, we should also weigh the context in which those errors happen (urban warfare, Hamas embedding itself in civilian areas, use of ambulances to smuggle fighters or weapons, etc.). And we should also judge Hamas by its admitted policies - deliberately targeting civilians, embedding in hospitals, rejecting coexistence.

If we’re honest, both of us need to be open to the possibility that our sources and interpretations can be incomplete or biased. Real reflection means asking hard questions in both directions - not only of Israelis, not only of Palestinians.

Re: How Israeli actions caused famine in Gaza, visualized

#460

Post by C6JEsQeQa5fCjE »

stale2002 wrote: post #433
C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn't move the situation any closer to liberation of their people and their homeland. They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy with overwhelming advantages, for their cause for two years now. Why would you assume that being able to escape with their lives is suddenly more important to them?

> They have been willing to constantly fight, and constantly keep getting killed by an enemy Thats not true at all. Most people in palestine do not want to throw their lives away for nothing. Most of them want peace. Its only Hamas that would apparently prefer to get killed and have gaza be flattened instead of accepting peace.

The question I responded to was: "why is Hamas refusing a peace deal that ends all this and lets them escape with their lives?" Your responding that what I wrote is "not true at all" makes no sense in the context.
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