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NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

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Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#131

Post by duxup »

gnramires wrote: post #128
duxup wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree about the structure problems with apps and sites that are free with ads. I do worry that without that free option users just simply wouldn't ever try anything new and just stay where they are new. If everything costs money to move ... I worry nobody moves and everything stagnates. Facebook and similar, now in an even stronger position. Users, for worse, like it this way and make free with ads the bes…

I think another model could help here. Like an automatic/anonymous micropayment when you access a website. This could be a fraction of your internet subscription reserved for micropayments. It should be possible, and cryptocurrencies aren't necessary either (although similar cryptographic constructions may be used, no need for proof of work).

I really like the idea of micropayments, especially for news sites, but social media works too. Wish someone could get it to work.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#132

Post by lucianbr »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #16
jacooper wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol 5 million is pocket change for meta, wtf are these courts doing?

Fines in general aren't effective. Perhaps this case doesn't warrant it, but generally speaking I'd like to see allocating jailtime across the top shareholders as an option. If my dog bites somebody, I'm on the hook, it should be no different with a company.

There was a thread recently about sanctions, and how if you break that, executives can actually go to jail.

It is obviously known how to get corporations to comply, and the mechanism is used when governments really want to. In this case and others like it, probably they don't care enough.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#133

Post by throawayonthe »

odux wrote: post #82
Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

Exactly. The very existence of these apps and websites is based on such “user hostile” behavior. Same with the cat and mouse game between YouTube ads and ad blockers and third party YouTube apps. If the side wanting to completely stop Youtube ads becomes successful, YouTube will cease to exist (as a free app). I am not arguing for this model, my feed is getting more useless every day, but the only other model is subs…

tbf facebook is the only (mainstream) social media i know that offers a subscription in the first place

actually i forgot about youtube

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#135

Post by lbhdc »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

https://about.fb.com/news/2024/11/facebook-and-instagram-to-...

Don't they already offer this? Did it get canceled?

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#136

Post by tomrod »

sumeno wrote: post #130
rightbyte wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. Really? It took me until like 2012-2013 to realize Google searches stalked me to other websites. Then again much critics at that time of big tech was disregarded as lunatic crackpots. And nowadays your are a crackpot if you claim they are not spying on you. I guess that matters.

If anything people overestimate the amount of tracking since the average person still thinks their phones are giving them ads based on what they say

Yeah, the incident rate of this occurring is pretty high for randomness only.

It's easier to expect that your phone is always listening (because it is) and sending that data to apps for advertising than to force app providers to open source their code and prove they aren't collecting data on what the phone mic picks up.

But maybe you have more insight on a single provider's application that has been thus accused than other people in the thread.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#137

Post by delbronski »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #80
delbronski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, I much prefer technological stagnation over technological progress that is harmful to society.

Europe has this delusion that they can keep living their magically relaxed life, and continue to both fund it and stay relevant on the world stage. FYI, the big players today are the US and China. Nobody has the heart to call and tell Europeans that they aren't really part of the future, they're still away on their 8th week long holiday of the year. Not staying economically relevant is far ( far ) more harmful to soc…

Yeah sure, because life in the USA is so much more awesome than in Europe. Naww, they can keep their relevancy in the world stage. We are good over here living in the "stone age".

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#138

Post by wintermutestwin »

ilovetux wrote: post #120
odux wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The very existence of these apps and websites is based on such “user hostile” behavior. Same with the cat and mouse game between YouTube ads and ad blockers and third party YouTube apps. If the side wanting to completely stop Youtube ads becomes successful, YouTube will cease to exist (as a free app). I am not arguing for this model, my feed is getting more useless every day, but the only other model is subs…

YouTube offers an ad-free subscription called YouTube premium. It's reasonably priced and includes access to YouTube Music. I like the hybrid approach of being able to be ad-supported or paid with no ads. I would like to see more of it. What I don't like is a paid service like Amazon Prime that also includes ads. They include ads in their search results and they include tons of ads in their video library. FWIW: Hulu…

> It's reasonably priced and includes access to YouTube Music.

The “price” includes giving your data to the data vampires and is thereby incredibly unreasonable.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#139

Post by munchlax »

mattashii wrote: post #105
munchlax wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The defendant in the verdict is called "Facebook Netherlands B.V." I guess they're writing the paperwork to cut off that particular subdivision as we speak.

Facebook Nederland B.V. is just one of the defendants; the other defendants are Meta Platforms Ireland (based in Ireland), and Meta Platforms Inc. (the main company, based in the USA) The Dutch subsidiary has been acquitted, as it only managed advertisement income, not the app design. Meta Platforms Inc. has been acquitted, as it itself doesn't directly provide apps or services in Europe (nor the Netherlands) - legal…

Thank you for clearing that up

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#140

Post by moi2388 »

I would like them (or actually the EU) to go one step further:

All people should see the same information, in the same order, with the same metadata such as likes and comments.

Example:

I go to Reddit. I see a list of only the subreddits I subscribed to. This is fine. But within this subreddit, I should see the same information as other users do.

Currently, you don’t even see the same comments and same replies, likes, dislikes on topics. This puts people in bubbles, and makes it impossible to enforce fair reporting, illegal content or manipulation.

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