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NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

bitsoffreedom.nl

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Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#81

Post by red_rech »

Aurornis wrote: post #42
55555 wrote: post #20

Please for the love of god make it a legal requirement that messaging must be made available as a separate app without addictive feeds. Or make it such that users can disable the feed in settings. We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform.

> We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform. Those people are in the app because of the social features and the feed in the first place. The messaging features were built on top of the platform. Requiring companies to make and maintain a separate app entirely if their product has messaging features is an unreasonable requirement. If…

[dead]

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#82

Post by odux »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

Exactly. The very existence of these apps and websites is based on such “user hostile” behavior. Same with the cat and mouse game between YouTube ads and ad blockers and third party YouTube apps. If the side wanting to completely stop Youtube ads becomes successful, YouTube will cease to exist (as a free app).

I am not arguing for this model, my feed is getting more useless every day, but the only other model is subscription based like you say. And for Facebook, Meta and the like, I don’t think the subscription revenue will be anywhere close due to economies of scale on the free model.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#83

Post by [deleted] »

pettertb wrote: post #22
mattashii wrote: post #2

Judgement (dutch): https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/2025... The judgement requires Meta to change their platforms within 2 weeks so that the user's choice is persistent. If not implemented in 2 weeks, there is a daily penalty of €100'000, up to a maximum of €5 million.

Fines up to 5 million Euros against meta Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!

[deleted]

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#84

Post by jfengel »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I think people more or less understand that. Nobody likes ads. Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted.

But I think every web designer knows that putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people. Making them enter a credit card -- even if you told them it would never be charged -- would send enormous numbers away.

Many won't even create a free account. Tracking tech is so sneaky because just the effort of logging in is too much.

Maybe the world would be a better place if we bit the bullet, nuked the vast majority of web sites, and built a better web on what's left. But it's not going to be an instant, ad-free privacy paradise.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#85

Post by Hilift »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

> I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work

That is unfortunate, due to Mark Zuckerberg has redefined the successful business model. META is on track to clear $80 billion per year in net profit. Like it or not, they have a mutually beneficial relationship with advertisers and investors. It's like a Unicorn reproduced with an ATM. It's one of the stocks that seem like neutral ground for institutions, like TSLA. There has to be a high table where those guys talk on phones carried in suitcases.

To put $80 billion per year in perspective, that is approximately the amount of annual federal Medicare matching funds reimbursement for the state of California (Cal-Aid).

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#86

Post by Aurornis »

em-bee wrote: post #69
Aurornis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform. Those people are in the app because of the social features and the feed in the first place. The messaging features were built on top of the platform. Requiring companies to make and maintain a separate app entirely if their product has messaging features is an unreasonable requirement. If…

Requiring companies to make and maintain a separate app entirely if their product has messaging features is an unreasonable requirement the better alternative is to require interoperability with other messenger apps, so can use the app of my choice. this is a proposal under discussion since years ago. I seriously doubt that your friends are only able to communicate through exactly one communication channel some peopl…

> some people do exactly that. they refuse to communicate on anything but their messenger of choice. and sometimes keeping in touch with that person is more important than my preferences. oh, and for many people i do not want to share my phone number, which limits the available messaging platforms we can still use. we'll be lucky if there is one.

I’m sure there are some number of people out there who only use Facebook Messenger, do not check their email, refuse to use any other messenger, for whom you do not want to share your phone number with for SMS texting, and for whom one of their friends cannot self-control enough to scroll a Facebook feed when they use the Facebook Messenger app. I agree this scenario is plausible for some very small percentage of users with eccentric habits and specific demands who are unwilling to compromise.

I do not agree that we need to start using the force of government to regulate that companies cater to this exact edge case situation where both parties refuse to bend their messaging habits or exchange SMS contact information but want companies to create an entirely separate app for them to communicate on their platform.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#87

Post by munchlax »

thahajemni wrote: post #44
hsuduebc2 wrote: post #12

As a European, I’m glad that the influence of big, potentially dangerous companies is being kept in check. From the start of October, Meta is completely switching off political ads and now I can look forward to my feed stopping with tabloids, politics and Russian propaganda and going back to technical curiosities and capybaras.

I, as a European, am worried that these rulings, regulations, and the prevailing mindset will lead to companies leaving and result in technological stagnation, due to our inability to compete with global markets. Of course, there is something to be said about the dangers, effectiveness, and societal impact of social media. But companies should have the right to decide how they conduct their business. They should also…

The defendant in the verdict is called "Facebook Netherlands B.V."

I guess they're writing the paperwork to cut off that particular subdivision as we speak.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#88

Post by eru »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #46
eru wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sorry the factory you bought from changed their T&C last month. You agreed to it when you turned your tractor on that morning.

Get a longer lasting contract next time.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#89

Post by eru »

jlouis wrote: post #70
eru wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you just stop using Facebook, if you don't like it?

Facebook is one major bait and switch strategy. In the first step, you get everyone to invest into your platform. You provide some valuable services to people, and they sign an implicit contract as a result. In the second step, you reap what you sow. You switch the platform entirely and change its core nature and functionality. It's hard to stop using Facebook when everyone else is using Facebook, and this fact means…

How has Facebook changed its core nature?
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